C-41 wash before final rinse

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by justin parker, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. justin parker

    justin parker Member

    Messages:
    39
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Location:
    Palo Alto, C
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Looking at the Kodak directions for Flexicolor processing in Rotary tubes (z131_03.pdf) I see only one wash recommended, between fixer and final rinse. This is given as 3 minutes. Does that mean they suggest simply filling the tank with water and letting the rotary processor (Jobo in my case) agitate it for 3 minutes before dumping the water?

    I see that for the sink-line processing they have an additional earlier wash between bleach and fix. Why this difference compared to rotary processing. I also see that people here on APUG recommend a lot more washing and changing of water than one 3 minute single wash step. I am left scratching my head as to why people's recommendations seem to be so different from Kodak's.

    When I dumped the 3' minute wash water it came out pink, and the final rinse turned slightly pink as well. I did the final rinse using 1500mL in a glass beaker sequentially for 3 individual rolls of 220. I look forward to scanning them on my Kodak HR-500+ scanner in the morning. ::: fingers crossed :::

    -Justin
     
  2. BMbikerider

    BMbikerider Member

    Messages:
    825
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Location:
    County Durha
    Shooter:
    35mm
    You could do it that way, but the 'proper' way which I have been using for the past 20 years is 6 changes of water in that 3 minutes. I.E. 30 seconds between changes when using rotary processing.

    Yes the colour tint is quite normal it does get less noticeable the more changes you do, but 6 changes should be enough. How much water do you put in the tank? The normal rotary process uses a minimum of 150cc developer, can I suggest a minimum of 200 cc's of water for each rinse.

    The additional wash between the bleach and fix may be to stop cross contamination between the two solutions. I normally use a bleach/fix combined which does not have that extra step. I don't know what affect it will have if you don't use the water rinse, perhaps lessen the effect of the fix - I don't know.
     
  3. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,771
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Kodak instruction sheet - again

    Here are the instructions packed with my C41 developer.

    Note that it says running water. Well, with my drum I either use about 3 changes to 6 changes of water or I remove the drum and put a hose into the tank.

    The water should run clear and the final rinse should not discolor if the wash is complete.

    PE
     

    Attached Files:

  4. justin parker

    justin parker Member

    Messages:
    39
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Location:
    Palo Alto, C
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks for your reply, PE. These are helpful instructions you attached. They seem to be oriented toward small tank hand inversion processing with chemical re-use. I am curious though as to the difference between these instructions and what is in the current pdf z131_03 for rotary processors. Is it just supposed to be implied that the 3:00 wash is done using a series of changes of water? I can't find that stated in the Rotary processing section.
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,771
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    My instructions say running water. My rotary tank instructions (Jobo) say changes of water. I do either. Usually changes with small tanks and running water with multiple rolls. The point is that the wash water should be clear, and the final rinse should not discolor. Those are the key points. And the reason for this is the same as for B&W. Good image stability!

    PE
     
  6. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Member

    Messages:
    2,057
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Location:
    Nicholasvill
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    It must be the quality of my water, but even after 15 minutes of running water, my final rinse still turns slightly pink.
     
  7. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,771
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Try increasing the wash after the bleach, and if that fails then try a stop after the developer.

    PE
     
  8. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Member

    Messages:
    2,057
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Location:
    Nicholasvill
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I will have to try a stop because I have used a 20 minute wash after the bleach with no change.
     
  9. amac212

    amac212 Member

    Messages:
    95
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2008
    Location:
    East Coast,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I do 30 second rinses with 10 water changes on a Jobo.
     
  10. justin parker

    justin parker Member

    Messages:
    39
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Location:
    Palo Alto, C
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks everyone for your help, including Ian C for the message you sent me. I now realize that it is implicit that any wash step must have water changes. I ran a new set of rolls today in the Jobo and did 6 changes of water (4 x 30sec and 2 x 1min) and there was not really any noticeable coloration of the final rinse bath (done in a glass beaker) and my negatives are no longer bleeding red water onto the floor of my shower as they dry. :D

    The first batch scanned fine, but I am thinking I should probably rewash and re-stablize them for archival purposes. It seems from other threads on here that that can be done, just as it can with black and white negatives.

    Thanks for your help!

    -Justin