Can I use the Pentax 67 165mm F4 LS with Mirror up?

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by 10speeduk, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. 10speeduk

    10speeduk Member

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    Hi All,

    I have read in the manual that you cannot use mirror up with this lens, however, I am sure I read somewhere that it can be done??

    Thanks

    Paul
     
  2. John Wiegerink

    John Wiegerink Subscriber

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    I think you are possibly thinking of the 165mm f4LS lenses problem with doing double exposures. The 90mm f2.8LS lens has a cable release socket that allows for recocking and doing a double exposure. The 165mm f4LS doesn't have the release socket and thus can't do double exposures. I've never known it to be a problem with the mirror-up mode, but I could be wrong. John
     
  3. John Wiegerink

    John Wiegerink Subscriber

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    Well, a quick follow-up on this one. I'm at my cottage, but just happen to have brought my Pentax outfit along. I have both the 90mm f2.8LS and the 165mm f4LS and just tried out the 165mm and I can't flip the mirror up without it tripping the leaf shutter in the lens. I've only had the 165mm for a short time and it probably hasn't taken more than 10 shoots total and that was just to see how the image quality was. I'll play with it some more and see if I can find a "work-a-round". Oh, I was very satisfied with the image quality also. John
     
  4. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    Mirror lock-up cannot be used with the 165mm f4 LS lens in leaf shutter mode. It is useable in non-LS mode as with any other lens.
    It is useable with the 90mm LS because of the different design. Multi-exposure with the 165 is also not possible, but it IS if the 67 body has been factory modified for multiple exposure (as it is independent of the LS lens). You can actually cause fairly serious damage to the 165 by using mirror lockup in LS mode; it's not specified for use on that particular lens.

    The 165mm f4 LS has optical qualities the same as the 55mm f4 — two of the best of the SMC Pentax lenses. You do need to be careful with exposures though because the lens is dramatically susceptible to mirror-shutter whack.
     
  5. John Wiegerink

    John Wiegerink Subscriber

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    After doing some experimentation I have come to your same conclusion about the 165mm f4 LS. Optically and functionally both! I have had the 45mm f4(along with five other lenes) lens for many years and loved it. A few months back I bought a "like new" 165mm f4 LS that didn't have the leaf shutter working right on. I didn't really need it but for the price of well under $100.00 I couldn't pass it up. It took a few hours of trial and error, but in the end I was able to repair the shutter and now it works perfect. Less than a week ago I stumbled onto a deal from KEH on the 55mm f4 ver.II. The glass was perfect, but the filter ring was damaged and you couldn't put a filter on it. At least that's what the ad said. Well, I was a sucker again, but for $98.00 including shipping I had to try it. KEH was excellent in the fact that I received the lens two days after the purchase and to my surprise the lens came with a "like new" 77mm Hoya UV filter screwed in. Puzzled I screwed the filter out and in with no problem and that brought a smile to my face. The next thing to do was test? I compared four lenses - 105mm f4, 45mm f4, 55mm f4 and the165mm f4LS. All I can say is there isn't a dog/Dingo in the bunch, but I'd say my 55mm f4 is just a tad sharper in the center than my 165mm is. I used Fuji Acros developed in Xtol replenished and wet printed at a 20"x24" print size. When I get back home I'm going to run the negs through my Nikon LS8000 scanner I should know more, but all I can say is Pentax glass is first class.
     
  6. sbjornda

    sbjornda Member

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    Would you be able to explain the mechanics of that? I'm sure I did that at least once by accident when I got the 165 LS a few months ago and was fiddling around trying to figure it out. The lens was undamaged - did I just get lucky?

    Thanks,
    Sterling
     
  7. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    Just lucky. :pouty:
    The warning is printed in all extant documentation for the 165 f4 LS.
     
  8. 10speeduk

    10speeduk Member

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    Thanks everyone for you efforts John W for your hands on detective work and Poission Du Jour for your brains! I will ensure I dont do it! I bought the lens with the idea of using off camera flash for portraits on a tripod. Will not being able to use MLU be the death of my portraits??

    Cheers

    Paul
     
  9. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    It's not the end of the world with no MLU for portraits. If using LS mode with flash you can sync at higher speeds than normal but will still need care in bracing the camera against mirror/shutter whack.
     
  10. John Wiegerink

    John Wiegerink Subscriber

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    Many of us bargain hunters end up buying a lens like the 165mm f4LS and never get or see an instruction manual for the lens. We just end up shooting from the hip and never have a clue we might be doing something to damage our lens. Now that I have repaired the one I bought I do believe the damage may just have been caused by exactly this problem. John
     
  11. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    We learn form mistakes! :smile:
    It's part of my inquisitive, investigative nature to learn how to properly work things. The 165mm f4 LS was an almost $600 mint investment for me — companion to a camera, back then, that I was unfamiliar with. I researched the 165's modus operandi extensively as it transited from Virginia /USA to Australia making note of the warnings about MLU and LS mode. So when it touched down I was clued up with the right and wrong ways to use it, thus easily avoiding a catrophic repair bill, either of the lens, the 67 body or both! Visit the Pentax forums (pentaxforums.com). I do have a link to the instruction manuals around here somewhere that links to a site download which provides rather grotty photocopies, but clear and pointed text as to operating essentials.
     
  12. mtjade2007

    mtjade2007 Member

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    If you use electronic flash you will not need MLU. MLU is only for slow shutter speeds below 1/30th of a second. The flash itself is faster than 1/1000th of a second. Pentax says you should set the speed dial of the curtain shutter to 1/8th of a second when you use the leaf shutter. The film will only get the exposure during the 1/1000th of a second of the flash. So you won't need the MLU for portraiture shooting.
     
  13. 10speeduk

    10speeduk Member

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    Thanks Man, I feel at ease. :smile:

    Just waiting for this beast to arrive from Japan...
     
  14. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    Coming from Japan, hmm? Then it should be well looked after.

    Checklist:

    Put on lens
    Check battery
    Check metering prism (or plain prism) is firmly mounted. Also, observe mount/dismount order: change lenses freely, but if the prism is removed and before remounting, then remove the lens, remount prism, then remount lens. :blink: Got that? :confused:
    Set film type to what you intended to load: 120/220, adjusting plate on back and also fiddlygibbledook on right side of camera
    Put roll of film in and fire test frames (67 shutter will not fire without film loaded). Fire at all speeds and scare the living daylights of the whisper-quiet digimons. I love a good whack.
    Wind on in one continuous smooth stroke, not jerky or you will stress (at worse, break) the winder mechanism
    Unload the beast
    Run off to the lab (or darkroom or whatever else you have) and process the film
    Come back and tell us about it!
     
  15. mtjade2007

    mtjade2007 Member

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    I just developed a roll of Ektar 100 120 roll yesterday. Man, it is the most beautiful neg I ever got. Shot by my P67-ii a year ago. I almost forgot about it. Finally dug it out and processed it on my Jobo. I love the 6x7 format.