Canon 24mm TSE II

Discussion in '35mm Cameras and Accessories' started by Michael R 1974, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

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    In 35mm I'm primarily a Nikon shooter but after much research I've nearly decided to buy the Canon 24mm TSE II with a cheap used Canon body (probably a EOS 1n). 24mm is a very useful focal length for me, as is TSE functionality (I use the Nikkor 45mm and 85mm PCE lenses quite often) and this particular Canon lens seems to be pretty much the best 24mm SLR lens ever. It is sharp (so is the Nikkor 24mm PCE), but it also has almost zero distortion! Wow! I had a chance to try one out and I was really impressed, so much so that I'm willing to spend an additional few hundred dollars for a used Canon body just for this lens. The only annoying thing about Canon bodies is the stupid way they incorporate mirror lockup (which is a must-have for me). Why couldn't they make a damn lever like Nikon, instead of having you access all sorts of wonky menus? Oh well. A minor annoyance I suppose.

    Anyone else have this lens? Do you love it?
     
  2. Rol_Lei Nut

    Rol_Lei Nut Member

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    Don't have one but wish I did: it's the only Canon lens I'd want to have...
    :smile:
     
  3. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

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    I agree that's what's so interesting about this situation. It beats everything in that focal length in my opinion. A complete package.
     
  4. ozphoto

    ozphoto Subscriber

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    Was toying with getting this one for a while, then they released the 17 TS-E. I picked that baby up and all I can say is . . . . WOW!! If the 24 is anything like the 17, you will not be disappointed. I also have the 90 TS-E which makes for a lovely portrait lens and is superb for arty detail shots with short focus.
     
  5. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

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    I have the Nikkor PC-E 45mm and 85mm and love them. But it seems like the Canon 24 is a little better for me than the Nikkor 24, mainly because the Canon has virtually zero distortion.

    I think the latest Canon 24mm and 17mm are both supposed to be awesome, so I'm not surprised to hear you're loving the 17mm. I've never personally had much use for something quite that wide, but 24mm is one of my favourite focal lengths so I'm about 99% decided on the Canon 24mm.
     
  6. F/1.4

    F/1.4 Member

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    I think the TS-E 24 being the best 24mm is pretty subjective.

    I think the Nikon or Canon 24mm f/1.4's are better, they bring in over 4 times the light the T/S's do, can isolate subjects much better, and have AF. I need that for the weddings I'm able to shoot analog on and my fastest film is 400 (at 200). At 24mm, I'd MUCH rather have f/1.4 than T/S, regardless of distortion.

    Different strokes, different folks. Also if you can afford (which I assume you can considering how expensive the 24 is), instead of getting the 24TS, get a 4x5 view camera with a 90mm. I can't think of many uses for a 24TS outside of landscape/architecture, and Large Format is much more suitable for landscapes/architecture than the pithy 35mm format.

    Now if you're shooting with a 5DII, well that's a different story..
     
  7. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    It is not a minor annoyance. It is a major design SNAFU that people have been complaining about for two decades now. Idiots! It is a little bit better on the digitals. At least you don't have to memorize custom function numbers and settings. But still...

    But for your case, sine this lens will be the only reason you have the body, you can just leave it set on mirror lockup mode most of the time. Make a note on a piece of tape about the custom function number and setting, and stick it to the camera for the times you want to shoot it without MLU.
     
  8. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    Operational quirks aside, the real challenge for you is getting the most out of it; it is a very expensive optic, for what it is. Mastering it is not impossible, but it will take time. Read up on the Scheimpflug Principle and be prepared for a bit of frustration, because the smaller format means much smaller movements are required to introduce the correct amount of effect (with lots of focus/refocus, checking, rechecking of DoF etc.). I bought my (Mk I) TSE-24mm in 1997 and it took 5 years of intensive use and research to bring the effects to fruition. All TS-E lenses according to Canon are in a specialist area; they certainly don't sell millions of them like so many other L-series optics.

    Harold Merklinger published an excellent 4-part reference on the Scheimpflug Principle in Shutterbug, November 1992. Some of the reading and technique is very deep, and certainly there are simpler ways (practical ways) of understanding what the lens is doing. Canon's own publication, long out of print, is "The Impossible Picture", published in the Netherlands in 1994 with excellent pictorial diagrams illustrating the affect of introducing movements, along with elementary mathematical conversions for arriving at the right degree of tilt.

    Be aware that the use of shift (only) will introduce exposure errors unless you meter first, lock in the reading, then apply shift.
     
  9. Øyvnd:D

    Øyvnd:D Member

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    Take a look at new Schneider ?mm and Olympus OM 24mm TS-lenses.
     
  10. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    Have you worked the 90mm TS-E as a macro lens, elevating and increasing depth of field? Or, used the TS-E 24 for portraiture or still life? And what are you printing to to blithely assume that 35mm is not suitable for landscapes? You sound a lot like the way Ken Rockwell rattles on comparing this and that and one thing over the other with no technical balance to reinforce it. Please, some of us have been in 35mm professional practice for decades.
     
  11. F/1.4

    F/1.4 Member

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    I think you misread what I was trying to say, so i'll spell it out a little bit more..

    I have used the 90mm, great lens, but we're talking about the 24mm.

    I have in fact used a 24 T/S, it was the new Nikon one. I rented it for a weekend just for kicks and to compare to my 24 f/1.4G. Great lens, but I prefer the rendering of the 24 f/1.4 because I shoot people and I want isolation. 24mm and f/3.5 doesn't really give you that unless you're on top of someone.

    I never blithely said that 35mm was unsuitable for landscapes. I said 35mm is a PITHY format. Pithy means brief, terse, concise. Essentially It covers alot in very little. That is NOT a bad thing, and I never stated that it was.

    Congrats that you are/were in 35mm professional practice for a long time. I work professionally analog too, whoop-dee-do.

    About technical balance, if you're going to spend the time to use t/s movements, at least use the format designed for it. I just said that the 24/TS in some ways may be a lesser tool to large format for landscape/architectural. You get more movement on (lets just say) a 4x5, and your negative is over 15x larger. If you're going to spend the time to use a t/s, why rob yourself of detail and tonality with 35mm? 35mm is designed for speed and portability, everyone knows this. So my question is why weigh it down with movements trying to emulate what you get with a 4x5?

    It's all a difference in personal perspective, dude.
     
  12. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    And we are talking about the specifics of a 35mm lens, not 4x5 and its perceived /actual merits over whatever else!
    Nowhere in the OP was their any open gate for you to barge in with unserviceable comparisons about 4x5 vs 35mm.

    Addressing another point in the OP:
    Canon is different! Yes, Canon's mirror lockup (along with a few other functions) is a cause celebré, but at least it works and works well on the workhorse 1N, and variants. F12-1-0 is all that you need to remember to activate it or not, but I agree, a lever would be better, but ever since it first came out, the 1N et al was going to be a different kettle of beans. Generally MUP is only really useful for very long tele lenses or precise macro (on that point, macro is something later EOS pro-level bodies achieve with greater panaché).

    Be it noted that very interesting (and challenging!) results can be achieved by aligning both T and S on the same plane. Inge Johnsson, TX, a researcher who made several ground breaking investigations into the TS-E, explored this in detail around 1997 (along with visual-vs-mathematical application of tilt).

    You might want to experiment with the Mk I TS-E 24 alongside the Mk II TS-E 24. There are some big differences, including weight, ease of handling, precision of focus and operability of T-S movements (rather oddball on the Mk II lens, but by the same token, in need of some design improvement on the Mk I optic!). I think using both side by side would be more valuable than assumptions.
     
  13. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    T/S lenses are for when you want tilt and shift with a small format camera. It seems pretty self explanatory to me. And that sounds like what the OP wants. Stating that 4x5 offers more movement and a larger frame is like stating that a witch's tit in a brass bra face down in the snow is cold. Everybody knows that. It is a given. No need to argue for it or against it. On to the OP's question instead...
     
  14. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    LOL! :tongue:
    You're invited to dinner! :smile:
     
  15. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    Ha, I changed my post to be less bitchy since you quoted me.
     
  16. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    I can see that. :wink:
     
  17. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

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    Obviously these things are subjective. And no kidding it will never match the print quality I get with my 4x5 and 75mm, but often I need to use 35mm. I'm always on a tripod doing architecture/landscape, regardless of format, and I'm not isolating subjects with selective focus. So fast, AF lenses are a waste of money for me. I'd MUCH rather have a slower 24 that doesn't distort. Different strokes, as you say. :smile:
     
  18. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

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  19. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    I'm not going to say it's a major annoyance: Canon is different, and there were indications of what was coming in terms of oddball controls as early as the T90. But the modus operandi is very fiddly (as with all custom functions). People with big fingers find it impossible to reach inside the trapdoor on the side in a hurry. Like cameras, people are different. I don't have chunky paws so I can easily get in there to change things, but wearing gloves in winter is another thing: I use the tip of a pen to do it! My brother-in-law has such big hands he cannot even grasp the camera! Especially annoying to me and a noteworthy faux pas (covered in depth in the Canon EOS-1-series mir.com.my site that I contributed to) is there is no visual advisory on the displays that MUP is engaged, and legions of photographers pressed this matter on Canon for years. Woe betide you if you get the itch for a spontaneous from-the-hip shot and discover that faithful Brutus is in MUP and the choice moment has long gone. :sad:
     
  20. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member

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    I purchased this lens second hand from another APUGger, and I'll say it's everything it's cracked up to be. As a large format shooter, it wasn't difficult for me to learn how to use it, and I really see these lenses as very specialized optics for photographers who basically shoot with a large-format mentality, but for certain specific reasons need to use small format or an SLR in some particular situation.

    Aside from uses that are off topic for APUG, the attraction of such a lens is for use where large format isn't an option, like where you might not be permitted to use a tripod, but you'll get a better shot with rise/fall or shift. Tilt and swing are not particularly useful without a tripod, but rise/fall and shift open up some real possibilities even for handheld photography. Diptychs using shift on a tripod are also another nice possibility with a lens like this.

    And even when I don't need the movements, it's great to have such a fantastically sharp 24mm lens for 35mm.
     
  21. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    MLU is not much of an annoyance if this body will be used with it all the time. I just wish Canon would finally come up with a better way to shoot with MLU.
     
  22. kraker

    kraker Subscriber

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    MUP... MUP... I'm sure I've got an "Oh, of course, MUP!" moment coming up, but right now, I can't figure out what the TLA MUP stands for.