Capacity of 120 films with Ilfosol-S?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by PCGraflex, May 14, 2005.

  1. PCGraflex

    PCGraflex Subscriber

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    All,
    Been getting back into B\W processing and using Ilfosol-S with HP-5 and FP-4 films. The info sheets for Ilfosol-S state that for a 500 ml bottle, it will process 16 36 exposure films (250mlx2). What is the capacity for 120? I used to know this but for the life of me I cannot think of it.

    Any Ilford fans out there?

    I also have some DD-X and want to try that with HP-5 but I wanted to use the Ilfosol first so I can compare. My reasoning is that the DD-X will probably be just for HP-5 and the Ilfosol will be for the FP-4.
     
  2. rbarker

    rbarker Member

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    In general, capacity-wise, a roll of 35mm is equal to a roll of 120, 4 sheets of 4x5 or one sheet of 8x10.

    I'm an Ilford fan, too. FP4+ is my "standard" medium-speed film, HP5+ for moderately fast, and Delta 3200 in smaller fomats when I need maximum speed. I use DD-X for all, at the suggested 1:4 dilution.
     
  3. PCGraflex

    PCGraflex Subscriber

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    rbarker,

    One roll of 120 is equal to a 35 mm roll of 36 exposures? If that is equal to 120 that would mean I could develop approx. 16 roll of 120 wth 500ml of Ilfosol-S? So you think I should use DD-X for fp-4 AND HP-5 and ditch the Ilsosol-S?

    Thanks,
     
  4. jmdavis

    jmdavis Member

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    The problem is that it takes 500ml to fill a tank to develop one roll of 120. So at 9:1 that means that you can develop 10 rolls of 120 with a 500ml bottle of ilfosol-S, even if the dev could do more.

    I only use Ilfosol as a 1 shot. Since my choices of tanks are 250 ml, 500ml and 2L, I usually stick with the 500ml tank and do one roll of 120 at a time. This method also lets me do a bit more exposure compensation than doing 4 rolls of 120 at a time.

    Mike
     
  5. Annemarieke

    Annemarieke Member

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    I use DD-X for FP4 rolls, and it works perfectly. Dilution 1+4.
    Also, I put two rollfilms onto one reel, one behind the other, so I use 500 ml for 2 rollfilms. It is a bit fiddly, but it works fine.

    Anne Marieke
     
  6. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I used lots of Ilfosol-S for developing FP4+, mostly at 1+14 dilution. two 120 films to a reel, third film held as backup to be developed separately in case I screwed up the first two. This was when I was doing semi-professional things.
     
  7. gbroadbridge

    gbroadbridge Member

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    500ml will develop 16x135 or 160x120 films (they're both about the same area). The problem is that unless you're using a rotary processor, you will need to mix up more developer for a 120 than a 135 (to cover the film) so you won't get those 16 rolls.

    There have been a few threads too, about infosol-s expring without much notice. If you'll use a bottle in 3 months that's not an issue, but if you spread it out a bit like I do, you may like the security of a developer that has long legs in the shelf life department once it's been opened.

    DD-X is good, as is Ilford LC-29. I use LC-29 as it is a lot cheaper here (Australia) due to the fact it is much more concentrated (1+9, 1+19, or 1+29) rather than DD-X at 1+4. Paying for the water content shipment from the UK makes DD-X a luxury item :smile:



    Graham.
     
  8. gbroadbridge

    gbroadbridge Member

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    I forgot to mention Rodinal.

    Rodinal at 1+50 works great with FP4 . It's not so great on HP5 IMO.

    Rodinal will last for *years* once opened.


    Graham
     
  9. PCGraflex

    PCGraflex Subscriber

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    Mike,

    So, with 16 rolls of 120 per 500ml bottle of Ilfosol-S is the maximum you can develop, and my tank is 500ml capacity of developer, 10 rolls of 120 is the max you can get out of that volume. What then is the max amount of film you can develop with 500ml of mixed developer? I want to try 2 films on one reel. If 2 films can be developed with a 500ml one reel tank (as OLE has mentioned doing) then you could theoretically develop 20 rolls of 120? To develop more films I can go to 1:14 but thats only 14 rolls max (assuming the same 500ml capacity tank) I guess I don't quite understand that.
     
  10. PCGraflex

    PCGraflex Subscriber

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    Ole,

    Were you developing 2 films per reel in a 500ml tank or something different? Look at my response to JMDAVIS and the questions I posed there regading this.
     
  11. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, I did two films to a reel in a 500ml Paterson tank. Wind in one film, use the tape at the end of that to stick the next film to the end of the first one, continue walking the films in. Works just fine after a little practice - but when it doesn't work, give up at onve. Don't try to force it, just roll up the second film again and save it till later or you have a good chance of damaging both films!

    That's why I always shot three rolls of anything important. But I never damaged any of those rolls, just my "personal" work...
     
  12. jmdavis

    jmdavis Member

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    I don't know if Ole is using 120 or 220 reels. I have some old 220 reels (I think that there are six Nikkor-Honeywells left). It might be a good experiment. Logically, with 500ml of mixed dev you should be able to do 2-120 films (~160 sq inches, same as 2-35mm, 36 exp). Total time may be longer with 2 rolls per reel, Ole would have a better idea about that. Shoot some tests and see how it works.

    I'm in the process of switching to Pyrocat, My local photo stores have started doubling the price of ilfosol-S ($10 US/bottle). B&H won't ship it anymore. Adorama will ship but with shipping (ground) I need to buy 5 at a time to get it below $10 US/bottle.

    Mostly I'm doing sheets these days (4x5). Using the hp-combi dip and dunk method described by Eugene on www.largeformatphotography.info. This requires 1L of working dev (100ml of ilfosol) per six sheets of 4x5. The dev can be reused, but I've never done it. At $5 US/bottle, I wasn't too worried about using it as a one shot. At $10 US/bottle The dev is almost costing as much as the film.

    Mike
     
  13. PCGraflex

    PCGraflex Subscriber

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    Ole,

    Yes, I understand how to put two rolls on one reel. My question is, with two films on one reel in a 500ml tank, what is the capacity of Ilfosol-S? Did you have to extend development? If one can develop 2-120 films on 500ml of working developer then 20 films at 1:9 isn't out of line.

    JMDAVIS,

    I guess I could always move to something a bit more economical in the future but I do like the convenience of liquids. I used to use UNIVERSAL years ago and that was pretty cheap. That's why I went with Ilfosol-S. Found out Ifosol-S is $7.99 locally here.
    I might just have to follow your advice and test a couple of rolls in 500ml of developer.
     
  14. gbroadbridge

    gbroadbridge Member

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    Unless you you're shooting just for fun, I'd be wary of exceeding manufacturers recommendations which are 16x120. You probably can get 20x120 out of a bottle but I wouldn't risk it on anything other than easily recreated shots.

    I frequently process my own c41 color film, and I've pushed that developer by about the same margin you're thinking of on many occasions. It worked fine - until one day it didn't and I ended up with a processed blank piece of film.

    I think the manufacturers build in a safety margin as they expect some bottles to be mistreated. With the safety margin they will still work notwitstanding the mistreatment. You will never know when you've received a mistreated bottle until it is too late.


    Graham.
     
  15. Bob F.

    Bob F. Member

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    If 500ml of concentrate will process 16 films (one-shot use) then each film requires 500ml/16 = 31.25ml of concentrate. At 1+9 that makes a minimum of 312.5ml of mixed developer per film. As long as you use at least 312.5ml of mixed developer per film (at 1+9) then you will be OK (in practice, I'm sure 300ml per film will do just fine)

    So, if your developer tank requires 500ml to cover the two films, you need to add approx 100ml more to give the required 300ml per film. If you need 1000ml to cover the two films then you are still OK but have wasted about 400ml of developer in which case, switching to the 1+14 dilution might make more sense; more developer than you need is obviously wasteful, but will not effect results

    Cheers, Bob.

    To double-check the maths: 500ml mixed at 1+9 = 5000ml: 5000ml/16films = 312.5ml per film. 500ml mixed at 1+14 = 7500ml: 7500ml/16films = 468.75ml per film.
     
  16. PCGraflex

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    Bob,

    Yes, now I see the problem most clearly. It looks like 16 films is the max and doing them one at a time seems to make the most sense as Graham has suggested also. I guess I wanted to load up the reels and get the most done per run. I will be moving to rotary processing when I get my CPP-2 up and running anyway. That's why the questions regardign two films on one reel and developer capacity. I also want to try DD-X as that looks to be more economical.

    Thanks to you and Graham and Ole and JmDavis and ... :smile: