Capacity of ID11/D76

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by lawrenceimpey, Jan 31, 2008.

  1. lawrenceimpey

    lawrenceimpey Member

    Messages:
    70
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Location:
    London, Engl
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2008
  2. Dietmar Wolf

    Dietmar Wolf Member

    Messages:
    633
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Location:
    switzerland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Grain and sharpness differs with amount of ID11 (dilution) used. 100ml may be the minimum, kodak maybe refers to the optimum.

    I personally use 150ml in a 470ml tank for one film.
     
  3. Snapshot

    Snapshot Member

    Messages:
    914
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Location:
    Toronto, Ont
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Without replenishment, you can expect to get 10 to 12 rolls developed with reused stock solution. However, in addition to extending developing time, you can expect quality degradation, although not so much that it becomes a major issue. Nonetheless, there is always a quality compromise.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2008
  4. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

    Messages:
    2,121
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    A great way to use ID-11/D-76 is to dilute it 1+1 with water. By doing this the dev has the advatage of always being fresh because you discard the dev after using it. Plus, you can mix in wahterever temp water you need to bring the stock solution up to 21C.

    In addition, you get better tonality and sharpness to the negatives.
     
  5. lawrenceimpey

    lawrenceimpey Member

    Messages:
    70
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Location:
    London, Engl
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Thanks for your reply but you misunderstand my question.
     
  6. lawrenceimpey

    lawrenceimpey Member

    Messages:
    70
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Location:
    London, Engl
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Yes, that's what I thought. I guess the release of by-products would start to inhibit development after a bit, as would some oxidation, hence Ilford's suggestion to increase by 10% per film. What I can't understand is Kodak's suggestion that capacity is only four rolls per litre!
     
  7. lawrenceimpey

    lawrenceimpey Member

    Messages:
    70
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Location:
    London, Engl
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Please re-read my question and prepare to be X&!*ed :rolleyes:
     
  8. Mick Fagan

    Mick Fagan Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,054
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Location:
    Melbourne Au
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Generally speaking chemistry suppliers work on the basis of 1 square metre of material per 1 litre of developer.

    This is from various sources I have read regarding running different brands and types of processing machines, both film and paper.

    My own personal Durst paper processor also recommends 1 square metre of paper per litre of working solution.

    That roughly equates to about 20 rolls of 135 36 exposure. Here is how I calculated, or came up with that figure.

    A 36 exposure uses an 8x10" sheet, which is roughly 25 x 20cm or 500 square centimetres. One square metre is 10,000 square centimetres. Divide 10,000 by 500 = 20 rolls.

    I checked out the links, I couldn't find it on the Ilford site.

    The Kodak one seems to state 16 then has 4 in brackets afterwards, which by the way adds up to 20.

    I myself use 8 rolls per litre with colour negative film as a maximum. This has been derived from empirical methods over a number of years and having the access of a big lab to do control strip measurements for me.

    I only use D76 1+1 so I don't ever come up to this possible problem, of capacity.

    Mick.
     
  9. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

    Messages:
    7,923
    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Location:
    Daventry, No
    Shooter:
    35mm
    As another has said it will obviously depend on dilution and tank capacity and finally on whether you use rotary processing. I have used a Jobo tank for one shot inversion processing at 1:1. The tank capacity for one reel is 240ml( called it 250). At 1:1 this is 125mls of stock solution so that is 8 rolls.

    I have never used rotary processing but Ilford says it's suitable. Neither have I used 1:3 but others have and its quoted in the Massive Development Chart. Certainly a professional processor called John Tinsley wrote a book on rotary processing quoting times for ID11 at dilutions of 1:1.

    So at 1:1 in a Jobo and using rotary processing the ID11 stock is only 70mls becuse the quantity needed is only 140. That's 14 rolls and all of this is one shot development. So from a number of good sources it looks as if 14 rolls is possible with rotary processing or 8 if using inversion and without going to 1:3.

    It's a versatile and reasonably economical developer and is very economical if you buy the 5 litre packs.

    pentaxuser
     
  10. BobNewYork

    BobNewYork Member

    Messages:
    1,067
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Location:
    Long Island,
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    My experience with highly dilute developers is that different films require different quantities of stock to do the job - I can only assume that different grain structures, emulsion technologies etc use up developing agents in differing amounts.

    Also, using chemistry to absolute maximum capacity is inconsistent with repeatable quality so without an accurate replenishment programme there'd be very few who did that.

    So "X&!*" me if you want but I think you gotta test. :tongue:

    Bob
     
  11. lawrenceimpey

    lawrenceimpey Member

    Messages:
    70
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Location:
    London, Engl
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    I think you'll see, if you read it again, that the figure in brackets is the capacity per litre.
     
  12. lawrenceimpey

    lawrenceimpey Member

    Messages:
    70
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Location:
    London, Engl
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Thanks!

    Snapshot has kindly answered my question, so many thanks to those who replied to it and also those who didn't :wink:
     
  13. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

    Messages:
    2,121
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format

    Ooops! I did miss that part.