center filter for Schneider 210 super symar XL?

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by timothyhyde, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. timothyhyde

    timothyhyde Member

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    Does anyone have experience using the Schneider 210 5.6 XL without a center filter for 8x10? I would guess it's necessary for 11x14, but I'm wondering if one could get by without it on the 8x10. Thanks.
     
  2. timothyhyde

    timothyhyde Member

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    I realize it should be spelled "Super-Symmar"
     
  3. Robert Hall

    Robert Hall Subscriber

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    I have spent the money for one for my 150. It was as much as a new lens. I have the 210 as well and have not had any issues with the need for such. If you shoot color, and commercial, it may be more important, but for fine art, there is little difference from 8x10 to 12x20.
     
  4. roteague

    roteague Member

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    I haven't used that particular lens, but I do have an 80 XL, and I almost always use the center filter with it. When shooting color, I think it would be necessary, especially with a larger format like 8x10.
     
  5. naturephoto1

    naturephoto1 Subscriber

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    As Robert has replied and I have heard from others that the Super Symmar 80mm XL is notorious for the need of a Center Filter almost all the time especially for color work. That was why I did not switch from my 75mm and 90mm F6.8 Rodenstock Grandagon N MC lenses.

    I have heard that this is not as much of an issue for the 110 Super Symmar XL. I am sure that Kerry and others shooting color transparencies can comment about this lens.

    But as to the 210mm Super Symmar XL, you may also want to talk to the people at Schneider USA if you are unable to get more info from the members of APUG.

    Rich
     
  6. Donsta

    Donsta Member

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    I've used it on both 8x10 and 11x14. On 8X10, the portion of the image circle you are using at any given point in time means that the falloff is not too bad. If I was shooting only B&W, I wouldn't bother with the CF (an extra $1000....). On 11x14, falloff is noticeable even on B&W and a CF is preferable. On 12x20, I would say it is essential.
     
  7. Eric Leppanen

    Eric Leppanen Member

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    I use a SS210XL on 8x10 only. I do not need the CF when using B&W or print film, and only use it when using chrome film with a significant amount of front rise (at least two inches).
     
  8. MichaelBriggs

    MichaelBriggs Member

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    Are you going to use negative or transparency film? Negative film has more exposure lattitude and will make it less likely that you will need a center filter. It is also a matter of taste. For the same usage, one photographer will say that they "need" the center filter, and another will say that there is no falloff, meaning that they don't find the illumination falloff inherent to the lens objectionable.

    For the same lens type (e.g., the Super-Symmar XL), angles determine the falloff. So the illumination falloff of the 210 SS-XL on 8x10 would be the same as a hypothetical 105 mm on 4x5, which is virtually the same as the actual 110 mm on 4x5.

    Schneider's website has PDF datasheets with graphs showing the illumination falloff of these lenses.

    The SS-XL series has illumation fallof that closely follows cosine to the fourth. For the 110 on 4x5, or the 210 on 8x10, centered on the film without movements, this is a light reduction of about 1 stop to the corners compared to the center. For the 80 mm on 4x5, the falloff to the corners is 1.9 stops.

    The discontinued 210 Super-Angulon / 200 Grandagon lenses had more uniform illumination.
     
  9. timothyhyde

    timothyhyde Member

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    Thanks for all of this, everyone. The last bit of information, Michael, is especially helpful. I have found that I need the center filter for my 110 SS-XL when using it on 5x7 but never need it for my 4x5, whether I'm shooting transparencies or not. Thus, when I liquidate one of my kids' college funds to buy the 210 SS-XL, I think I'll try it without the filter for a while.
     
  10. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

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    How can you tell if you need a center filter? I have a Nikkor-SW 120 mm and was wondering. Should I shoot some color E6 8x10 with it and see how the color falls off as it approaches the edges? How would you be able to tell with b/w?
     
  11. naturephoto1

    naturephoto1 Subscriber

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    Tim,

    All you need is a second mortgage on the house.

    Rich
     
  12. Robert Hall

    Robert Hall Subscriber

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    Light fall off around the edges. For black and white, this can be a nice "feature" if you tend to burn the edges of your prints.

    However with some enlargers, they have light fall off as well so with the two combined, you actually get back some of what you lose and it may just come out even.