Chemicals Mixed. What Next?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Christopher Walrath, Feb 13, 2008.

  1. Christopher Walrath

    Christopher Walrath Subscriber

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    I have just received my developing gear/chems. I have never developed film before. The following mixtures were stated on the containers. I have HC110 which I mixed 1:15 with 68F water. I have Kodak Indicator Stop Bath which I mixed 1:63 with 96F water. I have Kodafix fixer which I mixed 1:3 with 68F water. Then I realized the questions that I need answered. Not procedure. Chemistry and times. Well, here goes.

    1. HC110 mixes 1:15. Is this a working solution, ready to use?
    2. I have downloaded .pdf's from Kodak. One says 5 1/2 minutes for TMax 100 roll with dilution B. Is 1:15 dil A? How should I adjust time?
    3. Agitate first 30 seconds, then 10 secs per minute thereafter. Right?

    I know Stop bath is for 30 seconds.
    3. Should I have a seperate funnel for the Bath to avoid contaminating the bath with developer? (I am assuming I need to agitate continuously with the stop bath on the film. I will not have the opportunity to rinse the funnel between the developer and the stop bath.)

    4. Kodafix 5-10 minutes. Which? Room temp about 68F. Solution will be same.

    5. Rinsing. No hypo so water rinse for 20 minutes?

    6. Tried practicing loading 120 roll film on spool. Practiced with 35mm extensively last year, no prob. I hate the way the ends have a TIGHT curl on the 120 roll film that resists clamping and wants to rest against the inward loop at the end of the roll. Any trick to prevent this tight curling pre-processing?

    Thanks all.
     
  2. Kevin Caulfield

    Kevin Caulfield Subscriber

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    Chris, you need to realise that film developer needs to be used almost straight away. I don't usually use Kodak devs, so can't help you as to whether 1:15 is dilution A. I'll see if I can find it on their website. I wouldn't worry too much about that last bit of curl on the film. Once it's wet it will be better. Good luck.
     
  3. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    1. develop away. this is solution "b" and it is ready to use
    2.agitation is ok, i have my students agitate every 30 secs for 5 sec which is about one gentle inversion, up and back.
    3. stop bath is for 30 sec. you just need to agitate once.
    pour from the beaker directly into the tank.


    am not sure what you mean about the funnel. what type of tank are you using?

    4. which fixer are you using? that will help determine the length of time.

    5. you don't need hypo clear. we use ilford's method for washing as we have drought condition here.
    check their website for specifics

    6. you may want to add a bath with photo flo and distilled water after the wash cycle, it helps the water slide off the film when drying.
     
  4. David Brown

    David Brown Subscriber

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  5. Kevin Caulfield

    Kevin Caulfield Subscriber

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    Chris, dilution A is 1:3, dilution E is 1:11 and dilution F is 1:19, so you are somewhere between dilutions E and F.
     
  6. Kevin Caulfield

    Kevin Caulfield Subscriber

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    Hmmm, looks like I must have mis-read those dilutions.
     
  7. Kevin Caulfield

    Kevin Caulfield Subscriber

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    Yep, sorry, I stopped at the first table I saw.
     
  8. DarkroomExperimente

    DarkroomExperimente Member

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    HC110 dilutions can be confusing since some directions tell you to make a "stock solution" first THEN dilute the stock solution into A,B,C, etc

    the first time I used HC110 I used the stock solution straight and totally screwed up my film
     
  9. Christopher Walrath

    Christopher Walrath Subscriber

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    OK

    Dil B for TMax 100 is 6 min at 68F. Dil A, twice as strong. I don't know. 5 minutes? Or should I cut it further and make it into Dil B?

    Fixer time, 5-10 minutes. Twice time for film to clear. I can check for this after 3 minutes. What is clearing?


    Thanks. BTB, you guys are fast and all over this one. Thank you very much.
     
  10. Christopher Walrath

    Christopher Walrath Subscriber

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    Sorry, I'm confusin' the hell outta myself. I bought TMY100 for this year but the film I have to develop now is TMY400. I'll figure this out. Note to self. Calm down. Have some dip.
     
  11. DarkroomExperimente

    DarkroomExperimente Member

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    I'd suggest dilution B over A
     
  12. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Chris:

    First - breathe slowly - a calm mind makes for good quality negatives :smile:

    Second - it helps to remember that many of the instructions from Kodak presume you are using US cups (8 oz), US pints (16 oz), and US quarts (32 oz). The dilution instructions may seem to make more sense when you keep these quantities in mind.


    Now in response to your questions:

    1. As indicated in the from Concentrate table on the Kodak link referred to above, 1:15 is dilution A. It was designed for those who like to work toward a US pint (16 oz) of chemistry. It tends to result in very short development times with HC110. Dilution B is more common.
    2. There are two versions of T-Max 100. One is called T-MAX 100 Professional. The other is called PROFESSIONAL T-MAX 100 and is (IIRC) the newer version. I would suggest using Dilution B, and using the Dilution B times for the film you are using (it will say on the backing which one it is).
    3. Your agitation procedure is quite appropriate. You may want to experiment with alternatives in the future, but that can wait. Just remember to rap the tank firmly but gently (how is that for clear) on a firm surface after each agitation cycle, to dislodge any bubbles.
    3. (The second version) I am not sure why you wouldn't have an opportunity to rinse your funnel after using it to pour in the developer. All you need is to have a container of water to dump through the funnel. In any event, having some developer get into your stop bath won't hurt it much (assuming you will discard the stop bath after each use). It is not the same though the other way. If you let any stop bath get into your developer before or during use, it will harm the developer.

    By the way - your post indicates you mixed your stop bath at 96F. Why not room temperature (68F)? That would be normal.
    4. T-Max 100 takes a lot of fixing. I would use 10 minutes. The best way to test is to put a piece of leader into the fix (in the room light) and time how long it takes to clear. Your fix time should be 2 to 2.5 times that time (for T-Max I use 2.5).
    5. When you mention "hypo" I expect you refer to "hypo clearing agent". 20 minutes wash in running water (at 68F) seems appropriate.
    6. Are you using plastic reels, or stainless steel? I am not sure what you mean by "rest against the inward loop at the end of the roll". Any properly loaded reel (plastic or stainless) should not permit any part of the film to rest against any other.

    I agree that the curl can definitely make loading more difficult.

    Hope this helps, and be sure to have fun!!

    Matt
     
  13. Uhner

    Uhner Member

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  15. Christopher Walrath

    Christopher Walrath Subscriber

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    No, mixing I went straight to the working solution for Dil A. So now I need to get another US gallon container, fill it half with room temp water, top it of with Dil A and refill the orig container with room temp water and I will have 2 gallons of Dil B.

    As to the curl, I did a practice roll in broad daylight and the end of the roll (on the outside) had such a curl that the film was forcing itself, just on the end, last inch or so, to corner up through the spool loops and the other edge of the film was not in the rail and resting against the next loop of film inward. Everything else was fed onto the spool properly, checking for slack as I went.

    As to 96F water for stop, don't ask my why. Prob remembering AA on mixing stop bath at 125F and getting it as hot as it would get. Shouldn't affect the bath though.

    One other question, though. For the water rinse should I leave the tank cap off or on? Seems to me that the water would rinse out more thoroughly with the cap off.

    And, Matt, thanks for the advice on testing the test film in the fixer to time the clearing. Great idea.

    Thanks all.
     
  16. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    Mixing and using are different, I don't know why AA would find it necessary to mix stop at 125, or even 96. Liquid concentrate stop can be mixed at processing temp. Or, just use water. In any case use it a temp as close as possible to the developer and fix.
    For washing leave the lid off the tank if you'll be using a running water wash.
    I am not sure what sure what's going on with the reel. I SS reels, and prefer to start the roll with the taped end, and wind it with the curl facing inward.
    I hope this helps
     
  17. jeroldharter

    jeroldharter Member

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    Film is cheap

    When just starting out, the thing to do is experiment alot. On the one hand, you do want to know generally what you are doing and get the process down. On the other hand, experimenting is very useful. So take 5 rolls of 120 of the same subject in the same lighting and develop all of them for different times approximating N-2, N-1, N, N+1, N+2. In other words if 5:30 is your normal development time, try 2:45, 4:00, 5:30, 8:00 and 11:00 and just see what happens.

    In regard to the stop bath, just make sure that it is not too strong.

    For the fixer with TMAX, fix it long enough to get rid of the pink cast. You can open the film to daylight once it is in the fixer and watch.

    You might not need HypoClear/PermaWash but I would use it anyway. I prefer PermaWash because it is cheap and easy to mix in small quantities right from the bottle.

    PhotoFlo is definitely a good idea but it can gum up plastic reels. I prefer the Photographer's Formulary version because it comes in a bottle fitted with a dropper which makes dispensing small volumes much easier.

    If you use plastic reels, fill up an 11x14 tray with diluted Photo-Flo. Then clip one end of the film, remove film form the reel holding the clip in one hand and the loose end of the film in the other hand Then shape the film horizontally like a hammock and slide the film through the Photo-Flo from one end to the other. Then you can hang the film to dry. You need long arms for 35 mm or cut the film in half.

    Get rid of the storage containers. Use one shot chemistry and discard after use. Fixer is the most expensive solution so you might want to save and re-use that. Don't save diluted developer.

    Find a dust free place to dry film. You can make one with PVC pipe fittings and plastic or Tyvek sheeting and velcro from a home store.
     
  18. Christopher Walrath

    Christopher Walrath Subscriber

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    OK. Check me on this.

    TMax 400 120. HC110 Dev. Indicator Stop Bath. Kodafix. S/S single 120/dual 35mm tank with S/S 120 reel.

    Mix 8 oz Dil A with 8 ounce 68F water for developer to get Dil B. Load film. Pour in developer. Agitiate first 5 seconds. Rap tank on counter. Agitate 5 sec every 30 sec of dev time. Total dev time 6 minutes. Discard dev. Add stop. Agitate once. total time 30 sec. Discard. Add fixer. Agitate every 30 sec? Check for clearing and double that time for fixer. Discard. Water rinse. Cap on or off tank? 20 minutes. Hang, wipe off excess water and let dry. Overnight?

    Think I got it.
     
  19. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    i am sorry i mis-lead you with the solution a, solution b comment.

    we mix 1/2 oz to 15 1/2 of water and i had a brain cramp. so glad others jumped in and made it clearer.
     
  20. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    Christopher-

    just as a clarification, to keep you from confusing us and us from confusing you, (this was BAD nomenclature on Kodak's part, but it is what it is)... TMX is their three-letter shorthand for TMAX 100. TMY is their shorthand for TMAX 400. TMZ is their shorthand for TMAX 3200. So what you're shooting is TMY, aka Tmax 400.

    Your development procedure sounds AOK to me. As far as washing, you can leave the lid off the canister, if for no other reason than it makes it easier to fill and dump the wash water. After the 20 minutes washing, give 30 seconds in Foto-Flo, then wipe gently and hang to dry. Depending on heat and humidity, your film will dry anywhere from an hour or so later to overnight.
     
  21. Christopher Walrath

    Christopher Walrath Subscriber

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    I think I've got it. I'll hit it and post the scan of the first negs and let you know. Thank you all.
     
  22. smieglitz

    smieglitz Member

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    Nope. Dilution A is 1+15 from the concentrate. That gives 16 parts. If each part is say, 1 ounce, that is 1 ounce of developer concentrate in 16 ounces of working solution Dilution A.

    Dilution B is 1+31 to equal 32 parts. If you already have the 1 part of developer concentrate in your mixed dilution A, you need to add another 16 parts water to it (not 8 parts) in order to get to Dilution B. Adding 16 ounces of water to 16 ounces of dilution A brings you to a total volume of 32 ounces of working solution B, of which only 1 ounce is the original concentrate volume.

    Do yourself a favor and either mix the stock solution (1+3 from the concentrate) and then make working solutions out of that as directed on the bottle label (e.g., 1 stock+7 water for dilution B), or use a small graduate or syringe as someone suggested earlier and make the working solutions directly from the concentrate.

    The stuff apparently keeps better as a concentrate than a stock or working solution.

    Joe
     
  23. Christopher Walrath

    Christopher Walrath Subscriber

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    Sorry, Joe. Must have typoed or something. I mixed 8 oz Dil A (16 half ounces) with 8 oz water (16 half ounces) to make 16 oz Dil B (32 half ounces) for a single 120 reel S/S tank.

    Now, drumroll please.

    FIRST ROLL DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    No, hold the applause. No circles on the film, no air bubbles to inhibit processing. Negs look clear. Where I can make them out. Some of the film didn't fit into the reel quite right. A bunch was in contact with other loops of film. Three usable neg out of 10 or 11. Apparently I loaded it teribly. About two negs, or where they should be, are tanish and magenta where the film was touching.

    But I still love it. I learned that I have the process more or less down pat. Presoak in 68F water for 30 sec., dev for 6 min, stop for thirty sec., fix for 8 minutes (film cleared after three), water rinse for twenty. The negs are drying as we speak. I'll scan tomorrow and post it.

    Now, when I loaded the film I was seperating the paper backing as I went and it was cumbersome going in and damned difficult to check for slack. Should I roll the film out, cut the backing, roll it back up and the feed it into the spool? AND THAT DAMNED CURLING! I dunno, first roll and three usable negatives. . .

    Lemme know what you think. I want ideas.

    P. S. My son Ethan who has Aspberger's Syndrome asked my why I was twisting my hands and banging on the sink. I told him I had to agitate the tank to get chemical to all surfaces of the film and I had to rap the tank to dislodge any air bubbles. Then I said, 'At least it's better than picking on it to agitate it and then letting loose a 'Vrip. Vrip. Freaky-freaky-fresh. Yo, Dog! It's a tank.' '

    Thanks all.
     
  24. Kevin Caulfield

    Kevin Caulfield Subscriber

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    Hi Chris. Well done. I empathised with you yesterday, as I finally got my new darkroom finished, so after an eight month hiatus, I have a darkroom again. Regarding what to do with the paper backing, I do the same as what APUGer JBrunner does, which I was pleased to see on his video, as most others seem to recommend rolling out the whole paper backing and separating it before loading the film onto the reel. I find it much easier to let the paper come away as I load the film. One thing you'll find is that it's much easier to load 35mm than 120, so you're starting the hard way. (You did 120, right?)
     
  25. Christopher Walrath

    Christopher Walrath Subscriber

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  26. MattKing

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    Chris:

    I sure wish I could be there with you to show you how to do this, and enjoy the excitement with you too!

    It is so hard to help through the internet.

    One hint - you can gain a lot from the feel, and the sound of the film as you load it.

    Practice some more in the light, and feel and listen to it as it loads correctly.

    I can do 35mm on S/S reals in my sleep, but 120 remains a challenge for me, even though I've tried it off and on over 3 decades (I have some physical challenges (cerebral palsy) that are relevant to the challenge).

    Even so, the thrill is wonderful.

    Here is a link to a scan, of a print, done from a 120 negative processed by me on a 120 S/S reel:

    http://www.apug.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=31059&ppuser=6479

    Enjoy, and keep the faith.

    Matt