chiller construction?

Discussion in 'Darkroom Equipment' started by Dave Wooten, Aug 3, 2005.

  1. Dave Wooten

    Dave Wooten Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,720
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Location:
    Vegas/myster
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Ive heard an old water fountain chiller can be adapted for dark room work...any with experience or ideas on this...I can make warm tea out of my cold side this summer

    Dave in Vegas
     
  2. noseoil

    noseoil Member

    Messages:
    2,898
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Location:
    Tucson
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Dave, I keep a couple of jugs of water in the fridge to use for development with pyrocat. Pour in cold and add hot for a tempering water bath.

    You can put a re-circulation pump in series with a water cooler and then set up the thermostat to run at 68f, but this sounds like a lot of trouble, expense and time to set up. If you do that much darkroom work, perhaps it would be the best solution.

    My tap water is running about 90-92f this summer, so I just use the fridge. tim in tucson
     
  3. Flotsam

    Flotsam Member

    Messages:
    3,221
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    S.E. New Yor
    I was at Home Depot last week and they had two different home water coolers, the kind that use 5 gal water bottles, for under a hundred dollars. I must say that I am mighty tempted. All I need to do is bring my 22c tap water baths and a couple of gallons tops of wash water down to 20c. It just might work.
     
  4. waynecrider

    waynecrider Member

    Messages:
    2,297
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2003
    Location:
    Floriduh
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I work as a refrigeration contractor and have some knowledge of the water cooler aparatus. What do you need to know, and more importantly what do you need to do.
     
  5. Dave Wooten

    Dave Wooten Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,720
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Location:
    Vegas/myster
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Thanks Wayne,

    I would like to have 68-70 degree water, and run through a filter etc. with the chiller inline on a cold only line
     
  6. Dave Wooten

    Dave Wooten Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,720
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Location:
    Vegas/myster
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Ive seen some commercial chillers for darkrooms, they are over a grand etc....thought there might be something on the used market, restaurant etc. that could be adapted for darkroom use.
     
  7. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

    Messages:
    4,677
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Location:
    Italia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You can basically copy a keg chiller.

    1) Picnic cooler

    2) A copper coil placed inside the cooler

    3) Fittings at both ends of the coil

    Fill the cooler with ice water. The temp of the water coming out of the coil will depend on the flow rate. Run the water slow enough and it'll come out pretty close to freezing. Run it faster for less chilling. You'll need to add ice every so often.

    Instead of adding ice cubes use 2 or 1 litre plastic bottles full of water that you freeze. Easy to replace when they've melted and they can then go back into the freezer to refreeze.
     
  8. waynecrider

    waynecrider Member

    Messages:
    2,297
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2003
    Location:
    Floriduh
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Yep, water coolers have very small tanks and low output. Another problem is you'll need a different thermostat. From a practical standpoint only a real chiller will suffice, and there are non that I know of used in the restaurant business. A cooler with ice will create a very cold supply while the line is not being used. You'd have to run the water for awhile or use a tempering faucet with warmer water for any supply. I played with a 5 gallon bucket, ice and plastic hose just for giggles, and it was impractical. More annoying than anything.

    The most practical idea is to have a water bath setup that maintains a large body of water at the temp needed. I was just considering this idea before this thread by using a small window unit I have, since my blower wheel broke and it's impractical to buy the part. A cold plate with a small refrigeration unit would suffice, but the cost would be more then you want to probably spend and is more akin to what the photographic industry probably used for their water immersed deep tanks. Search Ebay just in case.

    Seriously, a large quanity of ice cooled water for tanks, trays or chemiclas is the best and cheapest. It won't change temp very fast. Wash water can be higher in temp or just chill a gallon or two in the fridge. Btw, you might want to check your floor temp. I use a water filled container on a tile floor and it stays at a lower temp and is easy to cool off fast and doesn't change temperatures very fast. In fact I use it for stand developing with no problems.
     
  9. Dave Wooten

    Dave Wooten Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,720
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Location:
    Vegas/myster
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Thank you!

    Dave in Vegas
     
  10. colivet

    colivet Member

    Messages:
    236
    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Check out the small wine coolers. They can hold lots of fluid at the right temperature.
     
  11. Dave Wooten

    Dave Wooten Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,720
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Location:
    Vegas/myster
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    now thats a thought...set it at 68....what is good for wine ... I dont know...
     
  12. dancqu

    dancqu Member

    Messages:
    3,676
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Willamette V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    The TAP water and the WASH water down from
    22C to 20C? What's wrong with 22C? That's one
    of my favorite temperatures!

    I'd try one or two or three or ... clip fans for starters.
    A small dehumidifier should be good for a degree or two
    or three or ... . Those degrees in Centigrade. Dan
     
  13. Dave Wooten

    Dave Wooten Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,720
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Location:
    Vegas/myster
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Dan

    I just took my tap water temp 3 30 pm aug 6 the coldest possible was a steady 87+ degrees (F).....and that is with only a 104 degree outside temp.....almost an Artic Blast! In the winter it is not a problem....
     
  14. dancqu

    dancqu Member

    Messages:
    3,676
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Willamette V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    We've both a water supply problem, you're water is too
    hot, mine's too hard.

    My answer, Reduced Solution Volume, RSV, techniques.
    I process film, developer, fix, wash. I use very dilute least
    chemistry solutions. All are used one-shot. So, no
    stop. The wash is of the Ilford type; three
    rinses plus wetting agent.

    Same for prints; one-tray - one-shot. The single very
    dilute fix will give archival results with one fix and still yield
    great per unit of concentrate capacity. Diffusion washes
    are a BIG water saver.

    I work out of gallon jugs of distilled water. What's your
    room temperature? How about an air conditioner?

    Also single tank rotary with one-shot chemistry
    will use very little water though solution volume may
    be short of that needed for an archival single fix. Dan
     
  15. Dave Wooten

    Dave Wooten Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,720
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Location:
    Vegas/myster
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Dan that sounds very interesting,

    it could work for me....I can get my room temp to 78 degrees no problem and cooler if I had to, It just gets way more expensive when I try to maintain below 78 or so....

    i.e. one tray, delelope (extended times...?) 2. dump dev 3. pour fix in same tray/fis/dump 4. wash dump. 5 wash/dump 6 wash/ dump

    all with distilled water....

    what kind of dev times are you getting?
     
  16. Paul Howell

    Paul Howell Member

    Messages:
    2,806
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    Phoeinx Ariz
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I use a tub with ice to control the chemistry temp and I made a chiller for film wash using a 10 gallon bucket with copper tubing winding though the bucket which is filled with water and ice. Tap temp is 90 and 72 after cooling. 1 bag of ice will last for 8-10 mint which is long enough to wash film that has been treated by orbit bath.
     
  17. dancqu

    dancqu Member

    Messages:
    3,676
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Willamette V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    You've sheet film in mind? All in all work with the least solution
    volume which allows ease of processing. That may, with a little
    practice, be less than you expect.

    I've not tray processed sheet film for many years. One tray
    may do for one sheet at a time, but multiple sheets ... ?

    I shoot 120. I compound all my own chemistry. I am too
    little familiar with what you are working with to be
    specific.

    Essentially I'm suggesting the use of room temperature
    processing using the least amount of stored room temperature
    water. Your room is your chiller. Dan
     
  18. jstraw

    jstraw Member

    Messages:
    2,702
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Location:
    Topeka, Kans
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    low tech chiller

    I'm a new guy planning a darkroom construction and I'm smiling here seeing that my plan is in no way original.

    Here is the sketch I just drew up:
     

    Attached Files:

  19. epatsellis

    epatsellis Member

    Messages:
    907
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    or one better, even. if you have a refigerator in your darkroom, buy a $5 roll of nylon 1/4" tubing, unroll about 4 feet off each end. Drill 2 small holes, grommet them (remember measure thrice, cut once) or find some existing grommeted holes, a simple pump, or alternately connect one end to water supply, other to a small tap near the sink....Voila! cold water, cheaply.


    erie
     
  20. Dave Wooten

    Dave Wooten Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,720
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Location:
    Vegas/myster
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Thanks, that is a couple of clever ideas :cool:
     
  21. jeroldharter

    jeroldharter Member

    Messages:
    1,954
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2005
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Wine coolers are designed to keep the tempereature about 58-60 degrees.