Chinese 6x12 cm backs

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by David H. Bebbington, Jun 23, 2006.

  1. David H. Bebbington

    David H. Bebbington Inactive

    Messages:
    2,364
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Location:
    East Kent, U
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
  2. naturephoto1

    naturephoto1 Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,819
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Location:
    Breinigsvill
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi David,

    I have not had any experience with the back. I believe that Kerry Thalman reviewed the 6x17 version of this back.

    Additionally, our own Paul Owen has a posted review of a different 6x17 back that you can read about here:

    http://www.largeformatphotography.info/shen-hao-6x17.html

    Rich
     
  3. Lachlan Young

    Lachlan Young Member

    Messages:
    756
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You can get them from Foto-Arte in London - see HERE at a cost of £199 - bear in mind they can only be used with 120 film as they use red window counting!

    Hope this helps,

    Lachlan
     
  4. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, M
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    I've seen one once and operated it briefly. I bought it for a friend of mine in the UK and made sure that it was okay before I sent it to him. I was able to easily put it on my camera and load a dummy roll. It didn't come with instructions, so I created some for him.
     
  5. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

    Messages:
    4,677
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Location:
    Italia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    That looks like the Shen Hao bc back. The only negative is the ruby window for advancing your film. Some films are almost impossible to see the numbers with the dark red window. OTOH the back lets you do 6x12,6x9,6x6 and I think even 6x4.5 by just changing the mask. It's one of those things that are very simple and because of it should work forever.

    But I'm talking about the Shen version. Who knows how well this version is made. Price is similar to what I paid for the Shen . $225 US.
     
  6. David H. Bebbington

    David H. Bebbington Inactive

    Messages:
    2,364
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Location:
    East Kent, U
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Thanks for comments - for £122.50 delivered (plus a possible £33 or so customs duties), I thought I'd take a punt. I'm just embarking on a new panorama-format landscape project and it would be highly labor-saving to do it on roll film.

    Regards,

    David
     
  7. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    18,005
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Honolulu, Ha
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    There have been a few threads on the DaYi 6x17 back here, mentioning some of the other Chinese backs.
     
  8. roteague

    roteague Member

    Messages:
    6,671
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2004
    Location:
    Kaneohe, Haw
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I looked at the Chinese backs, but settled on a Horseman; much more expensive, but much better quality.
     
  9. jedrek

    jedrek Member

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Location:
    Krakow, Pola
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I just tried my 6x12cm back out last week and it's pretty sweet. Shot a bunch of rolls with it in the Royal Gardens in Warsaw and they look to have come out great - I'm waiting to get my scanner out of storage, but the negs look fine.
     
  10. garri

    garri Member

    Messages:
    46
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Location:
    Oban, west c
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I would be interested to know how you got on with the back, del etc as I have an old Crown Graphic I have been toying with putting a 612 back on for a while now..
    Gari
     
  11. Thomassauerwein

    Thomassauerwein Member

    Messages:
    1,627
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2003
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I've had mine for a couple years nowq. I works great but has quirks. Make sure it is seated rite. Leave the tip of the pulled darkslide in place or there is a slight light leak. Leaving the edge of the slide in completelly solves the problem. waste a role of 120 and mark the paper as you roll it through. The numbering is close but double check, I overlapped a few images. also I made a window that accurately emulates the framing to put on the back glass so that I did not have any supprises in compisition once the film was proccessed. For the money it really works well.
     
  12. roteague

    roteague Member

    Messages:
    6,671
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2004
    Location:
    Kaneohe, Haw
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I haven't had any of those problems with the Horseman back.
     
  13. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    18,005
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Honolulu, Ha
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I haven't either with my DaYi 6x17 back.
     
  14. David H. Bebbington

    David H. Bebbington Inactive

    Messages:
    2,364
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Location:
    East Kent, U
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Just a postscript - I couldn't decide which to buy, so in the end I bought both! The Chinese one is Da Yi brand, the literature claims that it features improvements over the model first released 2 years ago. It seems well constructed, the light-trapping problem appears to have been fixed, the only cause for concern is that the window to observe the film backing paper has a sliding metal cover but no tinted perspex - not sure how well this would work out of doors.

    The Horseman backs costs 4 times as much and feels like it - the major difference is of course the automatic lever winding, which I felt was a major advantage when working at dusk or dawn in dim light, and it feels generally smoother - the Chinese back has obviously been designed for construction with as many flat sheet-metal parts as possible for cheapness but seems fine on a functional level.

    Thanks once again for info provided!

    Regards,

    David
     
  15. Dave Wooten

    Dave Wooten Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,720
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Location:
    Vegas/myster
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    new test units available

    We have several of the "improved" Focus 6 x 17 and 6 x 12 backs sent here for testing, we were planning to distribute these backs...they are in U.S., are new and in the box if anyone is interested PM me with questions and info, can save some shipping and initial cost on a few of these units....I am very pleased with this product....per cent to Apug..only 3 left of each unit....

    Dave in Vegas
     
  16. David H. Bebbington

    David H. Bebbington Inactive

    Messages:
    2,364
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Location:
    East Kent, U
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Just one point - the Da Yi back includes 2 flat stainless-steel springs, one in each film chamber to maintain tight film winding on the spools. The first time I ran a film through the back (I have a big bag of very outdated 120 I use only to test film winding), the film wound about 2/3 the way through and then snagged on a flat spring and the backing paper ripped! I made a judicious adjustment of the spring with pliers and then ran two more rolls of test film through with no problems.

    I would regard this as a design fault insofar as the free end of the flat springs points the opposite way to the direction of rotation of the spools, meaning that if the spring is out of whack, there is the risk of spearing the film.

    If Dave Wooten is going to be the US importer of these backs, this might give him enough clout to raise this with the manufacturer!!!!!!!!!!! With this fixed and the film number inspection windows fitted with some light-absorbing perspex, these products wouldn't be bad at all!

    Regards,

    David

    PS: "Garri" asked about delivery - mine took 2 weeks from China to UK, was well packed, somehow arrived without charges for customs clearance and VAT!
     
  17. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    18,005
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Honolulu, Ha
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I haven't had paper snagging on my DaYi 617 back, but I suspect the manufacture of these things isn't 100% consistent.

    David--since you've got both the DaYi and the Horseman, how about running a film flatness test for the rest of us? A well aligned copy shot of a newspaper sheet with lots of fine print and not too many display advertisements should do it.
     
  18. j_landecker

    j_landecker Member

    Messages:
    148
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Vancouver, B
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I had a used Horseman 6x12 back for about a week... but I found the film flatness to be poor. I ran a sacrifice roll through it, removed the dark slide, and found at one end the film was bulging up off the pressure plate 1-2mm. Doing the same thing in a friend's Da Yi back, the film was dead flat. I returned the Horseman and bought a Da Yi. Maybe the Horseman was a bad sample or needed some adjustment.

    Jim

    www.oneeighth.com
     
  19. Dave Wooten

    Dave Wooten Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,720
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Location:
    Vegas/myster
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Thanks David B. haven t had a problem yet with that....these backs are labeled FOCUS and have windows for 6 x 9, 6 x 12 and 6 x 17...I am sure they are similar....for me I had to master the putting the back on with the springs snaps but have it down pretty well....I am happy with the back, did a lot of NYC street scenes with it as well as the center photo of the APUG flyer Blaze-ON produced for the silver convention...the Brooklyn bridge shot ..for what they are used for and the price they are ok actually, one Apugger posted upgrading the light seal an easy enough task and available...in the past I imported and sold a lot of Russian optics and scopes....this looks like a good product for the money....I have used and tested several of the Focus products for about 12 months now...my present family situation has taken a big change and I will now probably not be making any new ventures in the near future, so that is why I have mentioned these test demo models I have at the present...I had 4 of the 7 x 17 left as of this morning, I now have 2 of the 7 x 17 s left, they work and are new, as is in the box shipped in the U.S., 453.00 loaded with your choice of AGFA APX 100 or 400 expiration date Jan. 01, 2009....yep a stash of the last batch!

    Cheers,

    Dave in Vegas
     
  20. roteague

    roteague Member

    Messages:
    6,671
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2004
    Location:
    Kaneohe, Haw
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I think you got one that was badly beaten up. I haven't use my Horseman much, but I haven't found any issues with it. A great piece of equipment.
     
  21. Willie Jan

    Willie Jan Member

    Messages:
    1,935
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Location:
    Best/The Net
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    i use the shen hao 6x12.
    had some troubles at start see (http://www.foto-art.nl/articles/shenhao/holder.htm) but after that it worked fine.

    Be aware that you will have to look into the red dot to move the film to the next spot. This can be a bit tricky with low light (little torch).

    Film is laying flat, on my site i have several 6x12 images posted. I like the format very much, i use a lot of slides with it.

    Email me if you have specific questions.

    Willie Jan.
     
  22. MARK BRUNSWICK

    MARK BRUNSWICK Member

    Messages:
    1
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Chinese 612

    I have been using a Shen Hao 612 with very good results. Bought from UK supplier Foto-Arte in London with warranty and all duty/vat paid. I didnt think the difference in cost warranted the potential downside.

    Hope that helps.