Clyton Chemicals

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Peter Schrager, Oct 28, 2005.

  1. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,097
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Location:
    fairfield co
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Lowell Huff has posted on the photo-net forum that if he has enough interest
    he will make a Rodinal clone. You can email him at Clyton chemicals. This might be interesting so people should express some interest....
    Best, Peter
     
  2. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,097
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Location:
    fairfield co
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Clayton

    Ooops that should read Clayton
     
  3. Keith Tapscott.

    Keith Tapscott. Member

    Messages:
    1,426
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2005
    Location:
    Plymouth. UK
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I wouldn`t worry too much about losing Rodinal, someone who works for or has worked for Agfa must know the exact formula of the commercial developer.
    The popularity of this product should ensure it`s survival and I wouldn`t be at all surprised if a company such as Tetenal Ltd end up making it.
     
  4. eric

    eric Member

    Messages:
    1,586
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Ever talk to that guy on the phone? Seriously, you can call him and he'll chat with you with chemistry and stuff. He's pretty cool and knowledgable.
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,896
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have tested their fixers and found that they do not live up to the 'hype' posted about them on PN by Lowell Huff.

    They are run-of-the-mill, adequate fixers, but not the super dooper stuff touted.

    PE
     
  6. eric

    eric Member

    Messages:
    1,586
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've never read any of the hype on photo net but aren't all fixers run-of-the-mill? I don't know what's special about fixer from one company to another. It just "fixes" the film. Its either slow or fast.
     
  7. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,097
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Location:
    fairfield co
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    ok

    PE-isn't that just the name of the game? You buys your tickets and you takes your chances. My post wasn't yay or nay just that if we had a supplier right here who was willing to make the stuff. I've never used any of the products they make since I don't care for shipping from the west coast; especially when it
    comes to liquids in bottles. I already make my fixer and my pyro but I was having a little fun tryong out the "ritualistic Rodinal" !!
    Best, Peter
     
  8. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,896
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Peter, I'll let you know after I do some experiments myself, but Rodinol is rather 'touchy' during packaging IIRC. So, it is not just a matter of "lets make Rodinol today".

    Eric, all fixers are not born equal. TF4 is very fast and allows reduced wash times. If someone says that their fixer does the same but is even faster, but when tested is not only slower to fix, but slower to wash out, then it is HYPE to me.

    TF4 met the specs. Don't take my word for it, you can test it yourself very easily. The Clayton fixer was equal to the Kodak Rapid Liquid Hardening Fix, but no better. It certainly did not meet TF4 in fix or wash times.

    I myself have formulated several fixers that are even faster than TF4 and wash out more rapidly than TF4. I'm still working on it. Jdef has used one of my generation 1 super fixers and has posted the formula here on APUG. You may want to try it, he seems to like it. I am working on gen 7 right now.

    PE
     
  9. Paul Howell

    Paul Howell Member

    Messages:
    2,751
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    Phoeinx Ariz
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have use Clayton fix and stop when Kodak was out of stock, no big issues or praise. I do use Rodinal for EKF 25, so I would buy a bottle.
     
  10. eric

    eric Member

    Messages:
    1,586
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Come to think of it, I use the Clayton Rapid Fixer (non-hardener) on my prints and TF4 on my negs. I just mixed some Clayton Rapid Fixer for negs cause I ran out of TF4. It does take longer to clear but I can't tell if TF4 or Clayton fixed the film better than the other.
     
  11. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,896
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Eric, in my experiment, the Clayton fixer cleared and fixed about 30% slower than TF4 and about the same as the Kodak fix. It was claimed that it fixed about 30% FASTER. That is not so.

    The extent of fixation is identical in all cases. It has to remove all silver halide.

    The wash rate with TF4 is about 2 - 4 x faster than with the Kodak and Clayton fixers.

    Therefore overall, the TF-4 is more effective. As I mentioned above, it is possible to do even better.

    PE
     
  12. bobbysandstrom

    bobbysandstrom Member

    Messages:
    248
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Lowell is a good guy and someone we ought to stand behind and support whenever possible!
     
  13. kaiyen

    kaiyen Member

    Messages:
    331
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Location:
    bay area, ca
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Lowell is a salesman more than anything else and can be really in your face about Clayton Chemicals. He also makes some claims that are pretty...incredible (in a literal sense).

    However, some of his products aren't so bad, and at least he's responsive.

    allan
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. bobbysandstrom

    bobbysandstrom Member

    Messages:
    248
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I think F-76 is a really fine developer. Can't knock that. Lowell has always been very helpful and willing to go the extra mile with regards to clayton products.
     
  16. MattCarey

    MattCarey Member

    Messages:
    1,303
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    My only trial of Rodinal was against F-76. I didn't pursue rodinal after that. Perhaps with more time, I could be initiated, but I just don't have the time.

    I do like F76.

    Matt
     
  17. titrisol

    titrisol Member

    Messages:
    1,671
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    Rotterdam
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    F76+ is almost identical to DDX in th way it behaves.
    Lowell was nice enough to send me some samples a while ago when we thought Ilford was going down the drain and both their F76+ and the odorless fixer are excellent products.
    I still have to try their low contrast developer (Extend +)

     
  18. Hero!

    Hero! Member

    Messages:
    13
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2004
    Location:
    Austin, Texa
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    Photo Engineer, is TF4 a brand name? Are you advocating it as the quickest and best of the fixes? Please elaborate.

    Thanks!
     
  19. Peter De Smidt

    Peter De Smidt Member

    Messages:
    1,064
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Location:
    Fond du Lac,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    TF4 is an alkaline fix sold by the Photographer's Formulary. I think Bill Troop developed it.
     
  20. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,896
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I neither advocate nor object to any product. I merely state how the product performs. The TF4 meets the advertized specs on the bottle. It is the fastest fix I tested (other than my own) and is the fastest to wash out to archival levels (other than my own - tests still pending).

    So, when compared to other fixes, I can say that TF-4 has no hype associated with it and neither does Kodak Rapid Hardening Fix. They perform up to the figures stated on the bottle. Even though the Kodak fix is slower, it meets its stated specs.

    OTOH, the Clayton fixes that I tested did not perform up to the standards posted by Lowell Huff, and there were no performance figures on the bottle. Posted information on several sites that sell Clayton gave conflicting information on treatment times and other critical information such as dilution.

    TF4 is an improved version of TF3 which is published in Anchell and Troop. It is indeed sold by the Formulary and does live up precisely to its specification.

    After many years of R&D in Bleach and Fix chemistry, I believe that I can speak with a certain degree of authority on the subject. Nothing is wrong at all with the Clayton product. It is a fine fix. It is just not a Super Fix. Isn't that what HYPE is all about? Overstatement of the capabilities of a product.

    The Clayton fix is an excellent work alike for the Kodak Rapid Liquid Hardneing Fix. No more, and no less. If that is giving you the value you want, then it is a fine product, but if you expect more from it based on some 'hype', it will not deliver.

    My tests show that TF4 does deliver what it says on the bottle. It is the quickest fix I tested of all but my own special formulation, and it washed out faster than any but my own formulation.

    PE
     
  21. craigclu

    craigclu Subscriber

    Messages:
    869
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2002
    Location:
    NW Wisconsin
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    PE... What are your plans with your fixer? Are you going to share the results and formula when you've finished or do you have other goals with it? Where does it fall on the pH scale, in general? Has it seemed compatible with staining developer processes? Sorry if this was answered elsewhere but I don't recall seeing it.
     
  22. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,896
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Craig, my only published fixer was posted here by Jdef (IIRC). For the time being, that will have to be the only one.

    My plans are to develop a universal B&W fixer that will also serve to work with other ingredients as an economical, fairly stable film blix for E6 and C41. It will then be basically a very rapid B&W fix, part of a blix (with an add on part), a color fix and it will allow for very very rapid wash with good image stability. It will work with both film and paper and with B&W and color.

    Since it is still under development, I don't care to comment further on it. My ultimate plans for it are open ended at the present time.

    I use it myself in my own darkroom. I am currently on version 7, and am running wash and keeping tests.

    Thanks for your interest.

    PE
     
  23. Mick Fagan

    Mick Fagan Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,108
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Location:
    Melbourne Au
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    PE, that sounds very, very interesting. As a person who does C41, E6 and B&W, it may make life quite different in the dark room.

    I await, with bated breath.

    Mick.
     
  24. dancqu

    dancqu Member

    Messages:
    3,676
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Willamette V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I think it's a fetish. Years ago the term "speed freaks"
    was used. I not going to use that term because I
    don't travel in those circles which use such
    terminology.

    Last night I used 1/2 ounce of unadulterated A. Thio.
    in a solution volume of 16 ounces to clear, and some, a
    120 roll of Delta 3200. I checked at 6 minutes and it was
    clear. I gave it another 2 minutes. A following iodide test
    did show some margin.

    One of these days I'll get around to testing wash
    times associated with highly dilute one-shot-and
    -done-with-fixers. First though I've got to find
    out how to prepare a permanganate solution
    which does not produce a precipitate. Dan
     
  25. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,896
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Dan, I'm not a speed freak. I want to use less fresh water for washing.

    I want to save time in the darkroom. I want to save time keeping temperatures at 100 deg F (38 deg C).

    All hit you in the pocketbook or affect the environment.

    Those are my targets.

    PE
     
  26. dancqu

    dancqu Member

    Messages:
    3,676
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Willamette V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Don't pay any attention to me. My minimalist
    regime dictates S. or A. Thiosulfate unadulterated.

    BTW, that Delta 3200 I wrote of has the very slightest
    pink hue. I'd average the exposure of the roll at close to
    zone 5. For that film I think 2/3 ounce, 20ml of 60%, a more
    correct amount. Clear and then some time will likely run about
    6 minutes. I've not made exact time tests. I only mention
    this so as to head off any misgivings on the part
    of any interested. Dan