cold tone paper & toners

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by gary bridges, May 3, 2005.

  1. gary bridges

    gary bridges Member

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    I would like to know what those of you who like cold tone black and white prints use - as far as papers & developers go - thanks in advance for all of the info
     
  2. Wally H

    Wally H Member

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    Ilford's MG FB for paper and Photographer's Formulary BW65 developer
     
  3. Shmoo

    Shmoo Member

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    Oriental graded fiber paper...
     
  4. Gary Grenell

    Gary Grenell Member

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    I think that you can get Jim Dandy results with any of the main papers: Oriental, Kodak, Ilford, Brilliant, etc. There are subtle differences between them, some negs may print better on some than others. So too with developers, they all have slightly different characteristics. None is "better" than another. Just don't make yourself too crazy (as I have done). If you have a slightly indecisive or obsessive compulsive streak (as I do) you can drive yourself batty looking for the "better" materials. Far, far better to stick to one and get to thoroughly know its characteristics. (Easier said than done). You know what happens: you see one exquisite photograph shot with a different film than you are using or printed on a different paper, and voila: you've sent off sixty bucks to New York to try it out.
     
  5. Gim

    Gim Subscriber

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    I also like Oriental and use it with Dektol. The "Darkroom Cookbook" has some cold tone developers if you want to mix it yourself. Oriental graded (have not use VC) and a little selenium...great!

    Jim
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2005
  6. Phillip P. Dimor

    Phillip P. Dimor Member

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    Definitely go for selenium toning.. Also benzotriazole is supposed to cool the image considerably. I wouldn't know, i'm still waiting for my 100g bottle to arrive..
     
  7. Les McLean

    Les McLean Subscriber

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    Benzotriazole does cool the image and it does have another benefit, it will also increase the contrast of the image. I would gently gold tone an image to cool the colour.
     
  8. Adrian Twiss

    Adrian Twiss Member

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    I favour Forte polygrade in Maxim Muirs Blue Black developer. See the chemistry recipe section of this forum for details.
     
  9. ooze

    ooze Member

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    Forte Polygrade is about the coldest paper I know of (without any toning etc). It's lovely stuff actually. Kodak Polymax is also quite cold, but availability in the UK is rather limited (I have only tried one box of 8x10). Oriental's graded paper is also quite cold. The Oriental VC is more neutral in my experience.
     
  10. Lee Shively

    Lee Shively Member

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    How does Agfa Classic Multicontrast do with Kodak Rapid Selenium? I'd like to try this paper.
     
  11. rhphoto

    rhphoto Member

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    Les is right about the gold toner. I think selenium gives a slightly warm purple brown color I don't personally like. I have gone on a Quixotic Quest for the perfect cold tone combination. I lament the loss of certain papers over the years, but currently I think Kodak Polykmax Fine Art has one of the coldest blacks. I used to use a lot of Oriental Seagull G, but don't know what that emulsion is like these days.

    So here's my suggestion: Kodak Polymax for paper. For developer, a home brew version of Ansco 120 (I think?), eliminating the potassium bromide (which also lends to greenish tones), and substituting benzotriazole as the restrainer. The 120 is Metol only, and I find that hydroquinone gives a bit of a greenish cast on most modern papers. Certainly it is the contrast-driver of your standard developers like Dektol, but you can just up the contrast filter to compensate. Make sure you develop for at least three minutes - incomplete development of b&w papers gives greenish or brownish tones. Maybe even more, as the Metol is low energy. Then fix in a non-hardening fixer, like PFormulary's. Finally, use a gold toner like Nelson Gold Toner, or I think PF sells one too just like it. Again, you will need to tone a fairly long time to get the lovely blueish cast to the print.

    I realize this seems laborious, but it has worked for me. You have to dry the print, mount it, live with it awhile, and then go back into the darkroom to fine tune, but it's worth the effort.
     
  12. MurrayMinchin

    MurrayMinchin Membership Council Council

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    I use Ilford Multigrade IV FB developed in a Metol / Glycin developer which is about the same as Ansco 120 in contrast (long story...20+ years of negatives developed for graded papers and cold light...switched to VC paper...bought a VC cold light enlarger head...heinous contrast at normal settings...40Y filter wasn't soft enough...Ansco 120-ish developer did the trick), to which Benzotriazole is added. To me, the Benzotriazole doesn't really increase contrast, what it does is clean the whites to an impressive degree. Then I Selenium tone in KRST 1:10 for 2 - 3 minutes. I find that print values III & IV 'eggplant' at a 1:9 dilution.

    Murray
     
  13. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

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    Blue and Gold toner

    Robert Hall- I would love to see one of those prints sometime. I've used Gp-1 quite a bit but the newer papers don't take as well. I have not tried nelson's nor leaving the print to tone for 20 minutes. How long you tone for? On the other side I used Benzo and cold tone for 20 tears and now just go with what the paper gives me.It's like seeing the paper for the first time. Forte will go anyway you want it. I'm also into their PolyW.T. Great paper I just haven't realized its full potential yet. Galerie and Agfa will do amazing things in homemade polytoner. Worth checking out. I'm not really sure what I'll be using next if Forte doesn't come back up on line. Still waiting for someone here on APUG to report back on the Kentmere Bromide. Maybe it's not worth reporting on....although a pure bromide should do cold rather well-no?
    Best to everyone, Peter
     
  14. doughowk

    doughowk Subscriber

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    My latest favorite is Kentmere Bromide. My previous were Oriental Seagul & Forte Fortezo. I have grades 2 & 3; but have used mainly #2 for, with selective dodging/burning, it gives me a good tonal range with almost a 3D depth. Been using Agfa Neutol Plus just because on hand, but plan to try PF's amidol-like formulae (BW-65). Haven't tried Selenium since its results on other papers for me tended to purple.
     
  15. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

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    Kentmere Bromide

    Doug- I'm glad to see that someone finally chimed in about the Kentmere Bromide. Only grade 2+3? If you are not using selenium what are you doing to protect your prints? I was having that same problem but now I just use less selenium in the mix. For FortePolyV it's 1.5 oz. sel./1 gallon water.Then tone for 2-2.5 minutes. Works every time. Love to see a work print of the Bromide. I'm still working through my stash of Forte so am reluctant to try it for now-but I am curious.
    Best, Peter
     
  16. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    One of the coldest papers we tested was Luminous and did not shift when toned in selenium. Rumor has it this paper is made by Kentmere, so if you can't find the Luminous, i would suggested the Kentmere.

    Oriental seagull is one of my personal favorites, unless i want to do split toning, or create serious color shifts, and then the cold tone papers donot provide those options.

    Peter, if you want to see some GP1 split toned prints, check out jonathan-bailey.com
    he has some beautiful images, all done with that toner and usually with Forte Polywarmtone papers, also some of the photos on that site have been toned in Nelson's Gold, or Hypo alum split.