color developing

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by bjjwannabe152, Oct 21, 2006.

  1. bjjwannabe152

    bjjwannabe152 Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2006
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Hey, I need some help. I have been shooting digital for over a year now but I want tomake the switch to film. I want to shoot color print, color slide, and b&w. So I need to also say that I am young and poor. 17 and I can't work until late March because of wrestling season. So, I have been poring over the internet and i want to know how much would it cost to develop my own b&w and color print film. second question is, is it possible to develop my own slide film? to be honest, i dont want print. i want to start a collection of slides and negatives. my goal is to have a binder filled with slides by the time i graduate from college. so any help would be greatly appreciated.
    oh, i have a room in my house to develop and basically just trying to figure out costs and other things of that nature. sorry this post is so unorganized but im writing off the top of my head
     
  2. Lopaka

    Lopaka Member

    Messages:
    757
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Location:
    Michigan
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Then I would suggest you organize your thoughts.

    Not to pick on you, but this is pretty general and hard to reply to. Pick a specific process, read through the existing posts on it, then ask specific questions to fill in the blanks. Lots of info here, and lots of folks ready to answer questions.

    FWIW, black & white offers a wide variety of 'pallets' or look to the result from different combinations of film, developer and methodology, but is the easiest (and least expensive) to start out with.

    Color is a very different medium - not any harder than b&w, just different. It does require precise temperature control, and fewer dealers sell the chemistry.

    You don't say what part of the world you are in, but in most areas of the USA, you can get C-41 (color neg) develop only cheaper than you can do it yourself at almost any one hour photo.

    E-6 (slide film) is a different story. Goes to custom labs at $$ rates. Yes you can do it yourself. I run mine on a JOBO using the Kokak 6 bath kit. Many report satisfactory results with Tetenal 3-bath kits.

    Hop this is some help to start with.

    Good luck and welcome to APUG!

    Bob
     
  3. bjjwannabe152

    bjjwannabe152 Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2006
    Shooter:
    35mm
    ok here is the organized version. thanks for the reply.
    i live in hawaii. I know that sending out slide film is expensive. that is what i really want to shoot. black and white is second, color print is third. i am not looking to get any enlargements done, just negatives and slides. how much did the chemicals cost you when you were developing your slide film?
     
  4. Lopaka

    Lopaka Member

    Messages:
    757
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Location:
    Michigan
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Getting chems in Hawaii is problematic since most ship only surface transportation. I get mine from Calumet - you might give them a call and ask about it -

    http://www.calumetphoto.com

    I don't know about local sources in Honolulu.

    Good luck.

    Aloha

    Bob
     
  5. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

    Messages:
    2,725
    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Location:
    Woonsocket,
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Since you're starting out, you've got both durable equipment startup costs and an initial purchase of chemicals to consider.

    Durable equipment for developing only (no enlargements) is a developing tank, reels for same, a few measuring cylinders or cups, a thermometer (capable of measuring in the 60F-100F range), a few bottles, clips to hang film to dry, a funnel or two, and perhaps a few other odds and ends. You'll also need a space you can make completely dark -- even a closet will do. If you can't find a dark space, you'll need a changing bag. Aside from the developing tank, reels, and changing bag, you should be able to get all of this stuff from local stores. Do not use utensils from your kitchen if you must return them to kitchen use; you don't want to risk contamination of photochemistry in your food! You can buy measuring cups designed for kitchen use from a local store, though. Many people use glass or plastic soda bottles for storing photochemistry, but be careful to label them appropriately and keep them well out of reach of young children if you do. The developing tank and reel will set you back about $15-$50, depending on what you buy and where you buy it. If you're on a budget, you can probably get all the durable goods you need for under $50.

    For chemistry, for B&W you must have a developer (D-76, ID-11, Rodinal, XTOL, HC-110, or various others) and a fixer. Stop bath, hypo clear, and a wetting agent are helpful but aren't strictly required. You should be able to get an initial supply of all of these for under $50 (possibly well under that value). If you're really cash-strapped and have supply troubles, try doing a search on this site for "Parodinal." This is a developer you can mix from scratch using acetaminophen (Tylenol), lye, and sodium sulfite. For E-6 (slide) and C-41 (color negative) developing, the easiest way to get started is to buy a complete kit. These come with between two and seven chemicals, usually in liquid concentrate form. (The number depends on the process and whether the manufacturer has simplified it in any way.) Such kits usually cost $20 and up, depending on the kit size.

    I can't offer specific advice on where to go locally to get these items. Several mail-order outfits are popular, though. These include B&H and Adorama (both in New York) and Freestyle (in California). I imagine shipping to Hawaii would be expensive, though.

    I recommend you check some beginning film-processing Web sites or books. One site I happen to have bookmarked is this one, but a Web search will turn up others.
     
  6. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,202
    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Location:
    Daventry, No
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Just as a matter of interest and sheer curiosity, have I understood you to say that you do not intend to make prints from negs? If so what are you going to do with the negs? I would have thought that neither colour or B&W negs are of much value from a visual aspect without prints. You did mention colur prints but used the word phrase "shoot colour prints". I am not sure if you means to print from colour negs.

    If you do then this opens up a whole new area of processing involving a darkroom and crucially an enlarger which considerably adds to expense.

    Secondly, from sheer curiosity, in what way does wrestling stop you working until next March?

    None of my business you could and may say but I can only presume that wrestling will take all your normal hours. Doesn't it leave any free time for part-time work other than a little for your photographic aims?

    As far as practical additional advice is concerned, I don't think anyone has mentioned the purchase of a slide viewer or projector and screen. I tried transparencies a few years ago without any prints and quickly found that a transparency viewer was a poor alternative to a projector due to the small magnification. Maybe you have access to a projector of course.

    My desire for prints meant that I moved to colour negs after my short relationship with transparencies but to everyone their own.

    There is an APUGer in Hawaii who is big on transparencies and maybe he'll pitch in.

    As another poster has said it might be worth your while to get a couple of books on both B&W and colour processing and printing. These normally detail the items and from that you can often work out costs.

    To be brutally honest I'd start with B&W neg processing then printing and progress from there. Trying everything at once is very ambitious but of course it's your choice.

    Best of luck

    pentaxuser
     
  7. bjjwannabe152

    bjjwannabe152 Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2006
    Shooter:
    35mm
    pentaxuser,
    sorry for being vague. i dont want to make any prints at all. when when i said color prints i meant print film. i want to shoot all three. bw, color print, and color slide. but i dont want prints. i want to make a binder full of prints of each film type. just for myself. if i do want any prints, i am going to use a slide scanner at my school and go digital with it.
    as to wrestling, i am a captain and it takes up my entire week from 330-730each night. that leaves no room. and who wants to hire someone who can only work for two hours a night?
    thanks for the input.
     
  8. htmlguru4242

    htmlguru4242 Member

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    Sandy Hook,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Great to hear that you want to start out, and welcome to APUG!

    Its good to see some fellow young people (I'm a college student myself).

    Anyway, I'd definietely say start with B&W shooting and developing. Its not too difficult, especially compared to E-6 (slide) developing. As mentioned, you'll need a tank and reels, some measuring cylinders, a thermometer and developer storage containers. A good timer or stopwatch would also be helpful for timing development.

    Its really a good idea to do some printing; it gives you a greater understanding of the art, science and technique of photography. On a personal side of that, I shot just B&W negs. for about a year, and never printed. I found out when I started printing that my negatives were WAYY too high in contrast and density. It was only after having EXREME difficulty printing some normal shots that I found this out and adjusted my development / exposure accordingly. That said, printing equpiment (read: enlarger) can be a tad expensive (i was using one at school).

    Anyway, color development (negatives) is a great thing to do as well, and, contrary to what some say, is not much harder than black and white, though it is tricky.

    Slide film is the same way, and, with some chemicals, is a lengthy seven-step process.

    So, start with Black and White and see if you like it. You can use the same equipment for all three things. Start out with a develope like D-76/ID-11, HC-110 or Rodinal that's widely available and has well-listed development times.

    After you've mastered exposure and development of black and white print, do color print, then color slide. (You could also get really fancy and do black and white slides, but my mind wanders).

    Most of all, have fun, and learn something new

    Sorry for being so long winded :tongue:

    And once again, welcome to the community!
     
  9. bjjwannabe152

    bjjwannabe152 Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2006
    Shooter:
    35mm
    thanks for the info, all of you.
    im not sure what i am going to do yet. but i know im going film, and i know all three mediums are going to come into play at some point over the next few months/years.
    while i have your attention, how well does a changing bag really work?
     
  10. htmlguru4242

    htmlguru4242 Member

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    Sandy Hook,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    A good changing bag works wonderfully, if you know how to use it and have a nice one. You can pretty much use any film in it; and its sometimes better than trying to seal off an entire room
     
  11. bjjwannabe152

    bjjwannabe152 Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2006
    Shooter:
    35mm
    i just finished doing some research and i think i am going to invest in the changing bag with the tent pole feature. i would rather pay for that then lightproof my entire bathroom lol.
    thanks again for all the info. you guys are getting me going in the right direction.
    *i hope* lol
     
  12. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

    Messages:
    2,725
    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Location:
    Woonsocket,
    Shooter:
    35mm
    This is sound advice. I, too, started without an enlarger; I just scanned my first few rolls of film. Personally, I lucked out; most of my initial rolls were developed to a reasonable degree. I was getting increasingly nervous over the possibility that I'd have problems printing, though. Film scanners tend to do a better job with extremely dense or extremely thin negatives than does photographic paper, in my experience. (At least, that's true of my Konica-Minolta DiMAGE Scan Elite 5400 scanner.)

    If you can't print, at least get ahold of some reference negatives that are properly developed, or give some of yours to somebody who can judge the matter. You can then compare the densities (or have the "somebody" do this for you), which should help you get in the right ballpark.

    This is true if you buy a good and new enlarger, or even some high-end used ones. A good basic to mid-range enlarger, though, can be had for under $100 used on eBay. I got mine (a Philips PCS130 with PCS150 control unit) for $50 (plus $24 shipping). I've seen reports of people who pick up enlargers for free. The used market is glutted with equipment from people and organizations who are going digital, so prices have gone through the floor. If even $100 is too pricey for your budget, bide your time and watch for local deals; you might get one of those free ones or find one at a yard sale for $20 or something.

    If the bathroom has no windows, lightproofing it is likely to be easy: A towel or shirt laid at the base of the door will probably be sufficient. If the door is particularly loose-fitting, some weatherstripping around the top and sides might be necessary, too. If the bathroom has windows, those would require more effort, but it can be done. You basically need something like a piece of wood, or perhaps even just cardboard, wrapped in black fabric, and cut to size, with flaps of fabric around the edges. Working at night can help a lot; even if your lightproofing is insufficient for blocking daylight, it might be more than enough to block moonlight, street lights, and whatever other nighttime lights exist outside the window.
     
  13. htmlguru4242

    htmlguru4242 Member

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    Sandy Hook,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Definetely true, that's what I do every time I need to develop film.

    Its much easier to do this at night, as there's much less light that you have to deal with leaking in. It may be easier to get a changing bag though, so you can load the film in the tank anywhere. Do remember that once the film is in the sealed tank, there's no need to be in the dark.

    Good luck, once again
     
  14. menglert

    menglert Member

    Messages:
    197
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I bought a film changing bag a while back from FreeStyle, but to be honest I never needed to use it yet (was more for travel ect). So this brings me to my question.

    I took it out and gave it a look over, and didn't really see how it could do a good job of keeping light out. I put my arms in the elastic arm-holes, but it still seemed like there might be some light coming in from the sides. :confused:

    If someone has the time to give a short explanation I would appreciate it. :D