Color Fixer can it be used in B&W devlopment

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by akfreak, Aug 23, 2010.

  1. akfreak

    akfreak Member

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    Hello. Sorry if I am in the wrong forum. I have a question about Color Fixer. The exact fixer is called NeoColor II it says it's Fixer & Replenisher (by Russell Chems) on the label it says "Equivalent to process C-41B (NP) . The fixer is made by L.B. RUSSELL CHEMICALS INC. I have only found one place that sells it, a place called Kull and Company. It is rather expensive for fix (IMHO) and they dont list NeoColor "II" fixer. it's just NeoColor, not sure if it is a typo or the "II" is different.

    I know color film uses Dyes and such and B&W does not. Can I use this color fixer to fix my B&W 120 film and Paper? If it is possible what times and ratios should I use. The small bottle I have (ten of them) is 2 liters and makes 10 liters. I dont see the mention of hardener. I believe this to be fix for a large processing machines or a large lab that replenishes fix.

    I have so much of this stuff, I want to be able to use it, Iam going to buy some c-41 B&W film and try to do C-41 color later on. For now I am in B&W mode and am on a fact findind mission on all of the chems I now own. I bought a huge portion of a processing lab. The chem was all free and I hope still good. There is no date code or data sheets for any of the chems. I was able to find info for all of the AGFA, Kodak and Ilford. I have some other cases of chem, like Lauder Chemical (hypo clearing agent) and various color toners, bleach, ect... for now I need to know about the NeoColorII fixer
     
  2. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    It looks to me like Russell Chemicals are/were manufactured by the L.B. Russell Corporation, and that company was acquired by Champion Photochemistry Ltd. in 1999. Champion Photochemistry is now the manufacturer of Kodak chemistry.

    I would contact Champion and ask about the stuff you have. In particular, I would ask how it compares to Kodak Flexicolour fixer, which you can use for B & W materials.

    Here is a link to a story about Russell being acquired by Champion:

    http://www.imaginginfo.com/print/Imaging-Business/Going-the-Extra-Mile/1$179

    P.S. have you asked Kull and Company?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2010
  3. akfreak

    akfreak Member

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    I found a Champion Photo Chemicals conversion PDF on page 36 it cross references NeoColor II fixer to a Mydoneg Plus Fixer I found it at South Florida Imaging Supply. The stuff I have was defiantly for a mini lab it was for a C-41 process called C-41-B (NP) NP i think is slower than the other faster c-41 processes

    Still trying to figure it out! Will call around and write email to all who will listen, thanks for the response.
     
  4. hrst

    hrst Member

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    AFAIK, it should work very well. Color fixers are quite neutral or slightly alkaline ammonium thiosulphate rapid fixers. You can dilute it 1+1 or so from the original color strength.

    Not sure about all the different varieties of minilab chemicals, though.
     
  5. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

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    Standard Kodak C-41 fixer can definitely be used with B&W films and papers. Since this is presumably compatible stuff, I wouldn't expect any problems, providing it's in date and you use a reasonable dilution. (Use whatever it recommends for C-41 film for film, or maybe more dilute for paper.) Do a snip test to determine proper fixing time.

    The opposite may not be true, BTW. IIRC, the color dyes in C-41 or other color films can be harmed by many B&W fixers.

    If you've got other photochemistry for C-41, it's probably best used on C-41 films. I've never tried it, but I've heard that C-41 developer can be used on B&W films, should you have enough that you just want to try experimenting. C-41 bleach is worse than useless for conventional B&W films, at least for normal processing. I don't know if it might be usable in some other type of process, like reversal processing.
     
  6. hrst

    hrst Member

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    It isn't, you need a 100% non-rehalogenating bleach for BW reversal, such as dichromate or permanganate + sulphuric acid. They only remove silver without converting it to halides, which is crucial in BW reversal.

    And yes you are right, acidic BW fixers may harm dyes because of acidity.
     
  7. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

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    By extension, E-6 fixer works for B&W also, but it exhausts quite a bit faster when using for other than than E6, since in E6 films there is very little silver left to fix out.

    There are threads that have discussed cross using bleaches; the word is that E6 bleach on C-41 is no problem, but not C-41 bleach on E-6; it is not strong enough.