Color neg's on BW paper

Discussion in 'Enlarging' started by David Ruby, Apr 26, 2004.

  1. David Ruby

    David Ruby Member

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    Printing color negatives on standard black and white paper:

    I know this simple issue has been brought up before, but I'm again wondering if anyone has experience doing this, since I'm forgetting what I used to do. I've recently tried printing color negs on Panalure, but I don't like the fact that I don't have conrast control.

    A few years back I played around with printing some color negs on black and white paper. If I recall, the trick was using a darker grade filter as a base, but I can't remember why. I do remember that the exposure times were pretty long.

    I haven't done this a lot, and I'm sure there would be some differences from real BW negatives, but I'm willing to try it if I have contrast control. Thanks.
     
  2. Ka

    Ka Member

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    Start with a 3 1/2 filter. That usually knocks down the grain as well.

    Good luck.
     
  3. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    Every once in awhile i have a student who brings in some color negatives. As this is a gang darkroom it is necessary to use standard b&w papers.
    the times are long , the contrast high and grain can be a problem; however, with care nice prints can result.
     
  4. David Ruby

    David Ruby Member

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    Ok. The 3 1/2 filter sparks my memory. Thanks. I'll give this a try and post something If I get decent results.
     
  5. Les McLean

    Les McLean Subscriber

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    I understand that Panalure is available in soft, medium and high contrast. With these grades and careful use of two bath and water bath development you do have some contrast control. On the other hand try starting on grade 3.5 as KA suggests although I have always found the need to use grade 4 or higher which increases the grain problem. One other suggestion to help reduce grain is to make a test print at the grade that gives the contrast you need and then make a post flashing test to see if a short exposure to white light has the desired effect. I use post flashing techniques quite a lot in my printing and have noticed a difference in the grain where I have flashed only a small area of the image. It's a little unconventional but worth a sheet of paper on a test.
     
  6. Nige

    Nige Subscriber

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    I tried one recently and it wasn't any good. I started with a high filter having read that many times (last one of these I did was 20+years ago on Ilfospeed paper and can't remember what I did then other than it wasn't any good then either... I still have the prints to confirm that) Anyway, I ended up back on normal grade and normalish exposure times but the print still wasn't any good. It was a picture of my son and the skin tone was all wrong. Maybe it will work for non-people pics. That's what I found.
     
  7. David R Munson

    David R Munson Member

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    I've had very mixed results when doing this. Seems to me that it depends quite a bit on the color palette of the image and subject matter in how it translates onto B&W paper. Sometimes it looks ok, sometimes it just doesn't look anywhere near right.
     
  8. David Ruby

    David Ruby Member

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    I may be wrong, but I think Kodak has stopped making all but the medium contrast Panalure (which I have). I bought some off Ebay for playing around with, but I don't really like the look of it. It's sort of a glossy surface, but not quite.

    I ran a test where I used quite a few filters with a 15 second exposure. 0, 1, 2, 3 all looked identical, I increased to 30 seconds for the 4 & 5 filters. They looked similar, with the #5 filter showing a lot of grain. I'm now playing with some of the images in case the heavy grain looks ok.

    Most of what I'm hoping to print now are photos I took on a trip through Italy and France a few years back. I took 50 rolls of color, and I have a lot of great shots I'd like to frame in Black and White (if this works out!). I have two rolls of black and white from that trip (two more were ruined by the lab as I wasn't doing my own processing at the time). If this fails I may just have to find a color lab to make these enlargements for me. That'll cost me though!

    Les-would you mind pointing me to a post or another source for more information on post flashing?
     
  9. Les McLean

    Les McLean Subscriber

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    David,

    Let me have your email address and I'll send you a draft copy of an article that I wrote on the subject. My email address is les.mclean1@btopenworld.com
     
  10. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    les;
    is this similar to your statement in your book, or more detailed?
     
  11. Les McLean

    Les McLean Subscriber

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    Ann

    The article describes the technique and method in much the same way as the book and is illustrated by two diferent images although the draft that I have in my computer does not include the images. It was published by Ailsa's Black and White Photography Magazine a couple of years ago.
     
  12. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    one of my students gets that magazine every month. I will have him check it out; I think i understand but it never hurts to double check.

    I am one of those hands on learners. Then get me to the written word.
    thanks.
     
  13. Flotsam

    Flotsam Member

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    I wonder if that's the same surface as Polymax SW F? A gloss but with a bit of a paper texture to it. I love that surface, especially after it has been dry mounted.

    It's funny how personal tastes vary.
     
  14. DKT

    DKT Member

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    kodak has discontinued all but the M grade (norm) of panalure. used to be availible as low, med & high. I still use it from time to time in our lab (albeit in a processor, makes it easier)--but one way to squeeze out a half grade or so more contrast is to use Cyan filtration, if you have a set of CC or CP filters or a color head. I use a dichroic color head--and you can play around with a filter pack of sorts to change the tonality for separation of tones in some cases. To lower contrast, I flash the paper with another enlarger.

    it works better than regular paper, but still has an odd sorta tonal range. I never noticed much about the surface though--the stuff I use looks pretty much like good old glossy paper.
     
  15. Woolliscroft

    Woolliscroft Member

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    Panalure also lets you use the eqivalent of normal black and white filters with colour negs (except the colours are obviously negative). That lets you darken skys, lighten greenery etc, which can also effect contrast.

    David.