colored soup

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by eskil, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. eskil

    eskil Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2012
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Hi, guys.
    I have a bit of an odd request here. I'm doing a project for art school that's based on the seven colors of the rainbow. Now I have this idea of taking a series of seven photographs of differently colored soup being poured out of a development tank. I'm trying to come up with a list of what combinations of developer and film result in which colors. But I'm only one person, and experimenting would take me far too much time. So I'm hoping some of you might know off the top of your head what combinations are needed to take seven photos for red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo and violet.
    Any ideas?
     
  2. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,994
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Location:
    Nicholasvill
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    If it just for a photograph, why find a film/developer combination at all? Just use water and food coloring.
     
  3. Worker 11811

    Worker 11811 Member

    Messages:
    1,629
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Photographs don't have to be real. You can dummy them up if you want.

    If your vision/goal is to show similar photos with different colors, you don't need to use real chems. You could, simply, use colored water. That way you could have the exact colors you think will produce the best series of images.

    If your vision/goal is to actually document the colors of different chemistry as it is being poured out, that would be a horse of a different color. :wink:
    The thing is I don't think you'll get the exact colors you had in mind.

    Kodak Indicator Stop Bath is naturally a bright yellow color. When it has been exhausted (by being exposed to too much developer) it turns purple.

    Different films have antihalation dyes that wash off in the first rinse. You'll often see deep blues, greens and/or almost black, depending on the film. However, if you put developer in first, without pre-rinsing, you usually don't see any color because the developer destroys the dye.

    Some fixers start turning a light gold color when they are becoming exhausted or when they get old.

    Some developers turn brown or straw colored when they are used up or get old.

    My Arista E-6 color kit has chems that range in color between light blue, purple or a tinge of red. The blix solution is a dark color.

    Other than that, I don't know anything else, that would have interesting colors. From what I have read of your post, I don't know if those colors will fit with your vision.

    That's why I suggested dummying them up.
     
  4. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

    Messages:
    4,250
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Location:
    Central Flor
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I would take a B&W photograph, print it on matte paper and hand-color the liquid in needed colors.

    Hand coloring is an old but a popular technique. You can use anything to color, such as colored pencils, water colors, oil paints, etc, etc, etc.
     
  5. Worker 11811

    Worker 11811 Member

    Messages:
    1,629
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Neat idea! :cool:
     
  6. Brian C. Miller

    Brian C. Miller Member

    Messages:
    495
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Location:
    Everett, WA
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Red: Rinse water from Kodak TMax, post development
    Orange:
    Yellow: stop bath
    (the rest are prerinse colors)
    Green: Agfa?
    Blue: Ilford?
    Indigo: More concentrated than above
    Violet: Same.

    And +1 on hand coloring. Just color the water coming out of the tank, let the rest remain b&w.
    Oh, and don't forget the various colors from toning.
     
  7. MartinP

    MartinP Member

    Messages:
    1,346
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Shooter:
    35mm
    APX100 and Rodinal (1:50) gives a nice strong purple/blue colour. Maybe that could be your indigo?

    As most people looking will have no idea that the 'thing' is a developing tank or, most likely, even that film is still available I'm not sure how clear the content project will be for the average viewer!
     
  8. Worker 11811

    Worker 11811 Member

    Messages:
    1,629
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I agree with that. Might I propose that one solution to that problem would be to set up the background with appropriate apparatus and utensils so that the scene looks like a lab with some beakers, measures or bottles of chemicals. Even if the viewer doesn't understand that he is looking into a photo lab, he will understand that it is something "scientific."

    Alternately, place a labeled bottle somewhere in the picture such that the viewer can see the word "Kodak" or "Ilford," etc.
     
  9. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

    Messages:
    2,936
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Location:
    Misissauaga
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Sweet talk your way into the chemistry department and ask if you can photo a demonstration of pH indicators. Take care around some of the solutions. To get some clour transitions you need to be very acidic or basic.


    Or more 'plain jane' photo chemistry related:

    Violet - potassium permanganate bleaching baths - mix from sctatch - not usually a commercial product.

    Blue - Iron toner - again mix from scratch.

    Green - copper toner - another mix from scratch

    Blue green and violet are also the colour you get off of different RA-4 papers if you run a roller processor with a prewet first tank before the developer.
    Manufactures provide an overcoat dye to fine tune the emusion reaction curve and speed of different layers with ra-4 paper.
     
  10. Worker 11811

    Worker 11811 Member

    Messages:
    1,629
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    If you want indicator solutions, cabbage juice is a good one.

    Get a head of fresh, red cabbage. Shred it up as if you want to make cole slaw.
    Put your shredded cabbage in a pot of water and boil it for 15 or 20 minutes.
    Strain off the liquid. It will be reddish purple.

    Changes in pH will cause the anthocyanin pigment in the cabbage juice to change color.

    pH 2 = Red.
    pH 4 = Purple.
    pH 6 = Violet.
    pH 8 = Blue.
    pH 10 = Blue-Green.
    pH 12 = Yellow-Green.

    There is a community organization in my town that used to have Harry Potter days during the summer where kids would come together and play magical games and stuff. I was a volunteer and I got to be the "Snape." (The potions teacher.) The cabbage juice trick is one of the things I did for the kids.
     
  11. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

    Messages:
    4,250
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Location:
    Central Flor
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yeah, but if we are not going to use real photo-chemistry (which is not likely to give color OP wants anyway) then we could just use colored water....

    I don't think real photo-chemistry change color enough to be effective visual queue, either. I like the food coloring idea. Or you could use water color. Or you could do B&W and paint the color in. It's an art project, not a science project, right?

    Red cabbage idea brings back memories.... I did that when I was 6 years old. I remember tasting it too. Yuck!
     
  12. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

    Messages:
    15,221
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Plus-X 120 gives a beautiful dark blue-green when I dump out the pre-wet water :sad:
     
  13. eskil

    eskil Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2012
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Actually, yeah. And as for 'the viewer' not recognizing the process, this thing will be viewed almost exclusively by my tutors and peers at art school, so they will understand the process of DIY development.
    Thanks a lot to everyone for your suggestions. It is as I had feared—if I want to do this right, it'll take ages. So I'm going to go ahead and fake it. I'll try both watercolor and food coloring, and keep you guys posted on the results.
     
  14. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

    Messages:
    4,250
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Location:
    Central Flor
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    "fake" is just a dirty word.... how about "creatively solve the dilemma? After all, what you want is to get your point across, not necessary be scientifically correct but visually lacking impact....

    Anyway, sounds like a fun project. Looking forward to seeing the results.
     
  15. Worker 11811

    Worker 11811 Member

    Messages:
    1,629
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    That's why I usually say, "dummy."

    I usually take the word "fake" to mean that the picture has been altered, post-capture, either by using Photoshop or by creative darkroom technique such as sandwiching negatives where "dummy" means that the picture is of a real scene but the circumstances of that scene were altered.

    For example the infamous Cottingley Fairies photographs, taken in 1917, would be "dummies" where the picture of Oprah Winfrey on the August, 1989 cover of TV Guide would be considered "fake."

    Okay, it's semantics... :wink: