Colour chemistry availability in AU

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by polyglot, Aug 24, 2010.

  1. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    Hi all,

    I just forked out for a CPA-2 after getting sick of paying nearly $15/roll for E-6 developing, plus I want to try optical RA-4 from 6x7. The problem is that I can't find any sellers with sane prices for colour chemistry in Australia, e.g. the Kodak 5L E-6 being $151 (PRA) to $162 (vanbar) and never stocked. One store here showed me the price list they get from the Kodak distributor and it's more than twice what I would pay retail from the UK (ag-photographic).

    I've been buying film and paper from Ag Photographic but the chemistry kits are pretty heavy and the shipping gets expensive - they don't seem to have any surface options (I've asked, lots!). Does anyone know of a competitively priced store in AU/asia or one in the US or UK that will do surface shipping? I'm happy to wait 6 weeks for the bottles to arrive if it saves me $100 on shipping a couple of kits.

    I've emailed calumet, since I know they ship chems within CONUS, unlike B&H.

    thanks...
     
  2. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    "I apologize but we are not able to export any of these kits or chemistry out of the US." --Calumet.

    Well, that was quick.
     
  3. Stephen Frizza

    Stephen Frizza Member

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    There is vanbar if you want to give them a try http://www.vanbar.com.au

    Otherwise I own the Lighthouse Lab in sydney and can process E-6 for you via dip and dunk for far cheaper than $15.00 a roll.
     
  4. OldBikerPete

    OldBikerPete Subscriber

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    I was where you are now when I decided to import component dry chemicals from Canada by surface freight (although they do offer air freight) from JDPhotochem in Canada.
    http://www.jdphotochem.com.
     
  5. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Unfortunately, JDPhotochem is no longer doing business.
     
  6. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

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    If you were in Melb (im moving there on wednesday) I'd hand you off some of my concentrated colour neg developer for testing/fun :smile:

    Vanbar can be pretty good.. just mix and match the steps.. you dont need to go all Fuji or all Kodak.
     
  7. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    I'm in Adelaide, though I drove to Melbourne about two weeks ago :sad:

    I see Vanbar has chems, but they're 3x the prices advertised by ag-photographic (UK), which is where I usually get stuff. I can ship stuff from the UK via 3-day courier and have it come out much, much cheaper than the Australian vendors that I've found so far.

    Stephen: what is your price for 120 E-6? I couldn't find it on your blog/website/thing. And (if you don't mind me asking - I assume you buy chems in much larger quantities than I would consider), where do you buy supplies?

    thanks...
     
  8. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

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    Here is a summary of doing C-41 on the cheap from Vanbar by mixing and matching different steps from different companies/makers.
    http://athiril.blogspot.com/2010/05/processing-c-41-colour-negative-film.html

    As far as E-6 go.. I got some out of date colour developer for E-6 (Kodak) from 2005 I think.. and its like new.. half price.. so the big lots of chems should last you just fine imho.

    First Dev Start: $17.44/95L
    http://www.vanbar.com.au/catalogue/product.php?id=62341

    First Dev Rep: $24.75/10L
    http://www.vanbar.com.au/catalogue/product.php?id=72252

    Colour Dev Start: ??? <-- they seem to be missing this but I have gotten it from them before. I've got enough atm for 40L, I could always send you a little if you needed (mine is Kodak), I'd ring and ask about colour dev starter. Or I can find out for you.


    Colour Dev Rep: $62.59/19L or $148.51/240L
    http://www.vanbar.com.au/catalogue/product.php?id=72251
    http://www.vanbar.com.au/catalogue/product.php?id=58642

    Bleach: $39.61/5L (I've got this Agfa stuff - used it for everything so far, C-41 and E-6, works great).
    http://www.vanbar.com.au/catalogue/product.php?id=47886

    Fixer: $6.27
    http://www.vanbar.com.au/catalogue/product.php?id=72253


    Stabiliser: $11.33
    http://www.vanbar.com.au/catalogue/product.php?id=62350


    I find it both cheap and easy to mix my own bleach and E-6 first dev, though I do it with first dev much more since I dont have a commercial dev, but a tonne of good bleach dumped on me by vanbar they were chucking out (as well as a tonne of some flexicolor and ektacolor chems).



    I can get family to post me stuff from Ag Photographic.. but I dont think you can get wet chems, plus that shipping cost would be massive wouldnt it?
     
  9. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    Thanks Athiril, I like your guide and will probably end up having to do something similar. But in terms of prices, consider that (at Ag) a 5L Kodak E-6 kit is $70, Fuji C-41 is $60 and C-41 is a bit cheaper - that makes the Vanbar numbers pretty depressing. I also didn't see Reversal Bath or Pre-Bleach in your list of E-6 stuff, though I assume Vanbar will have them.

    Knowing that they keep for a long time is encouraging since I can just buy a monster kit of separate chems and share them with a couple other people, not that I know many locally (one?) who would be even vaguely interested in doing their own colour processing. Anyone here?
     
  10. hoffy

    hoffy Member

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    Are you back in Adelaide now polyglot? I could be interested, but am probably not ready yet (& probably more interested in Ra-4 first)
     
  11. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    Yep, back as of April and most of my stuff (incl enlarger and CPA-2!) was picked up by the removalists today. Not really been active on apug or dyxum though, too busy with other stuff.

    If you want a share of RA-4 chems, that's cool. Not sure whether I'll start with that or E-6; I think I'll probably just buy chems for all three processes in one big batch, stick them under the stairs and slowly have play with them all. If I can share stuff like bleach & fix between the processes, all the better.
     
  12. OldBikerPete

    OldBikerPete Subscriber

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    Bugger! Now what am I going to do?

    Peter.
     
  13. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

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    Sorry I forgot about reversal bath because I dont use it, I take the film out and use light reversal after rinsing/washing after first developer.
     
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  15. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    So, some final(?) questions and to confirm things I think I've read elsewhere:
    - I can use the same Bleach (Agfa 70 BL) for both E-6 and C-41; do I need to have a separate stash at working concentration for each process?
    - Can I use Kodak E-6 final rinse k399 on C-41 or Flexicolor Stabiliser k345 on E-6? (Tetenal sells the same thing for both so I assume so, but the Kodak E-6 rinse is half the price of their C-41)
    - does anyone know of a way to put together a ~10L RA-4 kit from AU supplies?

    With respect to RA-4, Vanbar have a $90/2.5L Tetenal kit (seems poor value) or you can make up a 40L Fuji set for $290 (much too expensive for now). A Fuji kit (even if not a "kit") of about 5-10L would be nice!

    This is what I plan to use; please tell me if I'm missing anything or any of this will cause me grief or sub-optimal results:
    E-6: Kodak E-6 first dev, reversal, colour dev and pre-bleach. Agfa 70BL. Kodak E-6 fix and final rinse.
    C-41: Kodak Flex LORR colour dev, Agfa 70 BL, Kodak E-6 fix and E-6 final rinse.

    Edit: Total from Vanbar is $205 for E-6 and another $46 for the C-41 colour dev (the only component not shared).
    Edit2: I think those kxxx part numbers are Vanbar stock numbers not Kodak part numbers. Sorry.

    thanks!
     
  16. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

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    I have some RA-4 Ektacolor sitting around. The tetenal kit says its 5L kit for $90.

    You dont use pre-bleach with Agfa 70BL. You rinse/wash between every step.

    Kodak E-6 fix works brillo on both C-41 and E-6 at the recommend dilutions.

    I cant comment on either of these two or 'final rinse' for RA-4, not having done it, or looked around on APUG for discussions on it.

    I assume that the final rinse/stabiliser for both is fine, tetenal even have a 1L (makes 100L) of it for C41/E6 (both) for $34.10, its listed in colour->paper chemistry on Vanbar.

    You also need a starter for that Kodak LORR colour dev iirc, vanbar doesn't list it.. ring them (Carlton) and ask if they have a starter for it. Im not sure if thats what the Tetenal Starter is for or not (its stranger to have starter for tetenal on its own like that).

    I've made my own starter for flexicolor before.. I need to rediscover how I did it by taking the same steps again.. worked well.

    In any case, Kodak SM Dev doesn't need a starter http://www.vanbar.com.au/catalogue/product.php?id=56350 the litre per dollar ratio is a little higher though.

    Otherwise I recommend this.. 20L worth of dev, $99
    Starter http://www.vanbar.com.au/catalogue/product.php?id=58649
    Dev http://www.vanbar.com.au/catalogue/product.php?id=58648


    You need a starter for both the first dev and colour dev too fo E-6, but iirc they are all listed, and not expensive.
     
  17. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    The Tetenal RA-4 description says 2.5L though. That's probably what I'll do unless I can buy a smaller qty (not 50L!) of Fuji/Kodak chems locally. At least the Tetenal states the area of paper processed; I haven't read enough of the ektacolor docs to figure out L/m^2 consumption.

    Further reading in the Kodak E-6 manual says that you can use the C-41 stabiliser as a final rinse on E-6. That, in conjunction with Tetenal selling just the one, makes me believe that bit will be OK.

    OK, Fuji looks like a good option for the C-41 colour dev even if it does mean buying twice as much. You're right (checked the docs) that there's an E-6 colour-dev starter but Vanbar don't seem to sell anything like that from any of the brands. I'll definitely have to get pricing from the local supplies joint.

    Final assumption: Fuji C-41 colour-dev + Agfa 70 BL + Kodak E-6 fix is a seriously mongrel process. It should all still work with no disagreements between their various interpretations of the process though, right?

    thanks for all the help!
     
  18. Domin

    Domin Member

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    The Tetenal 2.5L kit is expensive and does not keep well. The developer is rather robust but the blix is NOT. Once it was already bad when I bought it and I live much closer to Germany than you. Unless you're pretty confident you'll use it quickly or not sure whether you'll continue printing I recommend to look for Kodak chemicals in 4x5L packages. Both dev and blix are split into four sets of 2 or 3 separate parts and are known to keep well. The cost of 20L of chemistry is less that 3 times the 2.5L kit.
     
  19. Molli

    Molli Subscriber

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    Rather than start up the 40,000th thread on this particular topic, I thought I'd revive the one which most closely coincides with the problem I'm having. After reading too many of the aforementioned threads as well as links provided by numerous Australian C-41 process users (thank you Polyglot, Athiril and OldBikerPete!), I've run into the problem of sourcing particular chemicals. I think I can get everything I need from Vanbar; but I've had no luck with the bleach. Athiril linked to the Agfa 70BL but that isn't listed anywhere on Vanbar's site any more. I'm really trying to avoid the Tetenal kit (more because of the longevity issue surrounding Blix than anything else), but I might have to go with it by default. Photo Engineer has stated in another thread that E6 and C41 Fixer are interchangeable and I'm happy to take his word on that, especially considering the price difference. This is my shopping list sans bleach thus far:

    [TABLE="width: 1"]
    [TR]
    [TD] No
    [/TD]
    [TD] Brand
    [/TD]
    [TD] Description
    [/TD]
    [TD] Quantity
    [/TD]
    [TD] AUD (Ex. GST)
    [/TD]
    [TD] AUD (In. GST)
    [/TD]
    [TD] USD Price
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD] 1.
    [/TD]
    [TD] Kodak
    [/TD]
    [TD] -Flex SM Unit Dv 2 ltr
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    1 @ $20.00​
    = $20.00​
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    1 @ $22.00​
    = $22.00​
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    1 @ $19.60​
    = $19.60​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD] 2.


    [/TD]
    [TD] Kodak
    [/TD]
    [TD] +E-6 Fixer & repl > 10lt
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    1 @ $5.70​
    = $5.70​
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    1 @ $6.27​
    = $6.27​
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    1 @ $5.59​
    = $5.59​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD] 3.
    [/TD]
    [TD] Kodak
    [/TD]
    [TD] Flex SM Final Rinse 1.5 ltr
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    1 @ $5.70​
    = $5.70​
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    1 @ $6.27​
    = $6.27​
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    1 @ $5.59​
    = $5.59​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    Total
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    $31.40
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    $34.54
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    $30.77
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]



    Do I have this right and where/how are the rest of you getting your hands on the bleach????

    Many thanks in advance for any help you can give.
     
  20. Molli

    Molli Subscriber

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    Would anyone be able to check my previous post and let me know if I have the correct items on my shopping list and, also, if there are any Victorian, Australians about could you please tell me where I can get my hands on the Kodak Bleach III or its equivalent somewhere near by? Thank You!
     
  21. JamesR

    JamesR Member

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    i was just doing a search on this!
    i started my own C-41 developing the other day with a JOBO CPE2, and a Jobo Press kit.
    but im after a better option. i just looked up the Digibase kits from Macodirect, but 40Euro post with a minimum 40Euro order was a bit much.
     
  22. hoffy

    hoffy Member

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    Have a chat to Matthew From AG photographic supplies in the UK. He sells the Fuji Hunt Press Kit and the 2 Tetenal Kits (& has shipped to Aus)

    As for the Tetenal Kits, as long as you use them in a reasonable time frame, they should be fine. From what I have been told, the Blix issue is a bit of a beat up.
     
  23. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    I've been using the Fuji kits; available from both Ag Photo (UK) and macodirect (DE). You can buy Rollei C41 components individually as 100mL or 1L concentrates from macodirect, so that's probably a good source of bleach.
     
  24. Oxleyroad

    Oxleyroad Subscriber

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    Molli, I've been using the Tetenal C41 1 lt kits ever since Agfa kits ceased being available here in Oz. I've not had anything that I'm not happy with.
     
  25. Molli

    Molli Subscriber

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    Thank you so much for your responses. I think I'll try to buy the components individually; with the bleach coming from Macodirect as Polyglot suggested. It's the "using within a reasonable time" part that was concerning me most with the kits. From what I can see, the Tetenal kits are of the powdered variety, so you have to make it up all at once. With the 1litre kits, that's entirely feasible; but I'd rather buy at least 2litres at a time (5 litres if/when I decide I like the results/start shooting enough colour film). Two litres in a liquid concentrate would, hopefully, allow me to a) do a couple of test runs to begin with and b) only use what I need without having forked out between $20 and $50 for shipping for a lesser amount.
    I'll go and check out those Fuji Hunt kits in the meantime. I think AG Photographic is where I started my search for kits with separate bleach and fix but quickly switched to other online shops when I couldn't see even a rough idea of how much shipping I'd be paying without actually putting in an order. (I'm a bit weird, if I can't see how much something is going to cost, I generally walk away to spare myself the embarrassment of asking and being told "Oh, that will be five quillion dollars, thank you very much!")

    Thank you again for all of your replies. Given how up in the air I am with the direction I want to take...and haven't even shot any of the film Steve so kindly sold me recently, it will be interesting to see what I finally settle on.
     
  26. hoffy

    hoffy Member

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    Molli, the Tetenal Kits are liquid. As for a reasonable amount of time, I would still suggest that they would last quite a few months.

    If in doubt, email Matt.

    Cheers