Colour paper that isn't flimsy - suggestions.

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by tomalophicon, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. tomalophicon

    tomalophicon Member

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    I recently used some old AGFA Signum paper that has a nice thick base and feels almost like a double weight paper.
    Is there any modern colour paper that has a thick base? The regular Fuji Crystal Archive is just so damn thin.
    Thanks.
    Tom.
     
  2. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    Color has to be rolled the opposite direction on the master roll for you folks in the southern hemisphere. Really, I think Fuji switched papers to get a whiter base (an improvement in this respect). It's not hard to handle if you've ever had to handle polyester base material, which crinkles
    way easier. What I did is make a sheet plastic sled that goes between my cutting table (or paper safe upon it) and the vacuum easel on my enlarger. It just clips in place with location tab I can
    feel in the dark to remove it if necessary. Volume printers have cutters built into the process, which
    are basically married to their Chromira or Lightjet printers, or adjacent to optical enlargers. I have a
    big table with a 48" Rototrim cutter, then just pop the lip of the sled over the round cutter bars and
    slide the paper onto the easel about another 4 ft away. The sides of the slide have been turned up
    with basic heat gun bending, and any edges carefully smoothed too. It works great and didn't cost
    much to make.
     
  3. tomalophicon

    tomalophicon Member

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    Hi Drew, thanks for the reply. I've been buying in sheets but would have to cut my own for any other kind of paper.
    My problem isn't handling but on that the skinniness of the paper is not as pleasing as a heavier paper.
     
  4. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    There's a new brand of RA paper being distributed in this country. I haven't tried it. Plus plenty of
    Kodak as well as older Type C Fuji still around. Sorry I can't say much about them. I'm going to
    standardize on the new Type II just for the color improvement and alleged best permanence. I have
    no idea what choices you've got down in Oz.
     
  5. tomalophicon

    tomalophicon Member

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    Drew have you tried the type II yet? If so let me know how it goes.
     
  6. warrennn

    warrennn Member

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    I measured the thickness of both type C and type II Fuji papers and they are exactly the same (about 0.010", if I remember right). The papers are nearly indistinguishable in most other ways as well (except for a very slight change in the green sensitivity which is easily compensated for).

    Warren N
     
  7. tomalophicon

    tomalophicon Member

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    Thanks Warren, that's very helpful.
    Is there a Kodak paper that's thicker?
     
  8. OzJohn

    OzJohn Member

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    I don't know how many colour papers Kodak still make but I have all my pro work printed on Endura and it has always, to my senses, been thicker than Fuji CA but I have not put a micrometer on it. Kodak used to have thinner photofinishing papers one of which was called Edge. Endura has a copyright notice printed diagonally on the back whereas the photofinishing papers generally had the turned edge Kodak paper logo.

    You are right about Agfa Signum. Before I stopped printing colour in 2004, I used a couple of boxes of it on the recom of another photographer and liked it very much. It did appear to be a bit thicker than the others, had a much whiter base than the Kodak papers and a great colour palette. I probably would have kept using it had I kept printing but then I would have run into the issue of AgfaPhoto going belly-up in 2005! OzJohn
     
  9. tomalophicon

    tomalophicon Member

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    Thanks OzJohn. I'm still on the lookout. Maybe I need to sample some.

    Yes the AGFA paper is so great. It's very sad it's gone!
     
  10. warrennn

    warrennn Member

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    I have a 300' roll of Kodak Edge paper and I measured its thickness: it is the same (~0.010") as the current Fuji type C and type II. I have heard that Edge paper has similar photographic properties as Endura, but have never tried the latter. I think that Endura is supposed to be thicker.

    Warren N
     
  11. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    So do you mean thickness or stiffness? CA II is not quite as stiff as C.
    I have done extensive testing on both, but have not yet tried the type II
    Fujiflex version. Type II has a number of differences from Super C. For
    digital printers the green sensitivity has been increased, but that only amts
    to about 5 CC on a colorhead, so is insignificant for us. The base is distinctly whiter, which really helps with certain subtle hues. The color
    reproduction in general is superior. Minor differences from the older product but they do add up. Perhaps a little less contrast, but that is easily
    accommodated with masking if needed. I made a range of 20X24 prints
    from Ektar and Provia negs, 6X7, 4X5, and 8X10. My own RGB colorheads are more precise than typical YMC colorheads, so I can make these color distinctions themselves more accurately. So yes, I have a high opinion
    of Type II CA paper. I'll acquire a 30 inch wide roll of the polyester
    base Type II next, once I appropriately mask some favorite 8X10 shots.
     
  12. tomalophicon

    tomalophicon Member

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    Drew I mean thicker.
    Thanks for the advice.
     
  13. perkeleellinen

    perkeleellinen Member

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    Edge and Endura are very similar apart from Endura being thicker and having the copyright print on the back.
     
  14. labyrinth photo

    labyrinth photo Member

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    we find the fuji dp II much more workable than the cut sheet CA. there is also a noticable stippling in the blacks on the CA. we have spoken to fuji about doing the dp II in cut sheet rather than the CA. we have a cutter so it's no fuss for us either way, cut sheet would probably cost more, but it doesn't help if the product they do provide doesn't do a good job.
     
  15. labyrinth photo

    labyrinth photo Member

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    in response to the positive comments re: agfa paper, the portrait was good too. it is worth noting that you can still get RA agfa chemistry with has a nice soft tonality to it, saying that we use fuji. it's out there if you want it.
     
  16. tomalophicon

    tomalophicon Member

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    Thanks Labrynth. So the chemistry can also change the way the print looks?
     
  17. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    Well I found your paper, though I have no idea if it's sold on the underside of the world. Here
    it's called Fuji Crystal Archive Preferred. Thicker paper but otherwise like CAII. Available rolls only.
     
  18. frotog

    frotog Member

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    Ra4 paper has a tendency to crimp no matter how thick the paper base. Shouldn't color palette, contrast and saturation be the most important criteria when choosing a paper? The best solution might be an inexpensive adhesive mount. The pres-on co. in Chicago makes a number of different substrates to mount to. Even their super-thin one-ply card-stock will protect your print from crimping due to careless handling in addition to satisfying your desire for a sumptuously thick paper stock.
     
  19. labyrinth photo

    labyrinth photo Member

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    yep, kodak, fuji agfa all have slightly different qualities.
     
  20. ras351

    ras351 Member

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    I haven't tried it but Kodak Royal is supposed to have a thicker base and should be available in Australia (albeit probably with limited surfaces/sizes).

    Roger.
     
  21. kb3lms

    kb3lms Subscriber

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    Kodak Royal is indeed thicker. It's about the same thickness as Endura but probably the same emulsion as Edge. I bought a 12 in wide roll last year and have been very happy with it. More neutral than the CA paper that I also have.
     
  22. tomalophicon

    tomalophicon Member

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    Great, I'll check Royal. I'd rather not deal in rolls but I don't really have a choice.