Colour sep: who does it?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by keithwms, Oct 5, 2009.

  1. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    I have been thinking about colour separation photography for various reasons, and I'd first like to find out who does what today.

    I am aware of the historical developments from J.C. Maxwell on, but I am mostly interested in who is doing analogue colour sep today.

    If you have any links to current artists using colour sep .... from capture through the print... I am all ears! (or eyes...) I am somewhat less interested in colour capture followed by separating the image into colour components- I am more interested in shooting panchromatic b&w film and building a colour image from that, in totally analogue fashion. Who does it?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. sanking

    sanking Restricted Access

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    There is long running thread on the subject at the LF forum. See http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=48583

    Unfortunately most of the work that is being done in this area today takes advantage of digital methods of correcting and balancing the color separation sets. It is possible that a few of the persons working with dye transfer may be using purely analog methods. There is a discussion group on this run by Jim Browning on Yahoo. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dyetransfer/?yguid=111435302

    Sandy King
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2009
  3. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Subscriber

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    I'm curious as well. I am teaching an experimental photo class this term and was thinking about trying something similar. We won't be able to do dye transfer for print output, so I am considering just developing the film as slides and projecting them using old slide projectors and aligning them. I suppose we could try to do a tri-color additive print onto RA-4 paper, but image alignment would be very difficult while switching out negatives in the enlarger.
     
  4. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Jim Browning is doing it with an old color separation camera as are quite a few in the Dye Transfer SIG on Yahoo. You may want to go to Jim's web site or the SIG to talk to people with this special interest.

    PE
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    You might try making up solutions that act as color developers, and then reversal process the separations and sandwich them together. This makes a pseudo Kodachrome slide. It can be done easily once you have the 3 color developers. There is a kit out there for doing this.

    PE
     
  6. mattmoy_2000

    mattmoy_2000 Member

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    Trichrome

    I've made trichromes! Admittedly, I made them by scanning the three negatives and using GIMP to colour them, but the results were pretty interesting. There's a group on Flickr called "Trichromie" too.
    If you're interested, I've got one online here.
    I've got another roll of them at home undeveloped, so far. I used HP5+ and developed, IIRC, in D76.
     
  7. Mark Antony

    Mark Antony Member

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    I do it, but I'm afraid I scan-I'm sure I posted this before, but in case you've not seen it:
    how to make trichromes
    and
    [​IMG]
    Mark
     
  8. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    Thanks Sandy, I didn't think to check lfpi.

    Ron, that is an interesting thought.

    Regarding alignment, I am thinking of placing corner crosshairs in the original image and doing the alignment at the enlarger.

    Thanks for the other comments as well. Again, I am especially interested in the purely analogue process.... but Mark I do remember that result, nicely done!
     
  9. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Keith;

    There are several methods of alignment. Kodak even made a register punch for this type of work. I have used a 3 hole paper punch to punch negatives and align them.

    PE
     
  10. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    Sounds good Ron. I was thinking of using epoxy at the edges....
     
  11. gordrob

    gordrob Subscriber

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    You can also check out http://ctein.com/ - go to the Welcome tab and the that will take to you to information about the dye transfer process and his library of dye transfer prints.
    Gord
     
  12. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Keith,

    What kind of exposure are you thinking of? Seqential or Parallel?

    Thought of the historic Miethe camera? You could do something similar by synchronizing an ordinary motordrive with some custom filter wheel.
     
  13. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Subscriber

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    I'm aware of the Kodak punch for large negatives, but what about 35mm negatives in an Omega 4x5 enlarger? Is there a punch out there that matches the metal pins on a negative carrier from one these machines?
     
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  15. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Greg;

    If you are determined to take sequential separation negatives, registration becomes a real pain, but there is a way. You can get creative and cut the 3 negatives out, then register them with a rivet so that they swivel or rotate around the rivet. Then, by using a cardboard carrier, you can print them. But, they still may be out of alignment due to some of the movement.

    All I can suggest is experiment.

    PE
     
  16. gordrob

    gordrob Subscriber

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    Another way of registering your negatives is to mount the original in a larger piece of film of the same thickness. This will then allow you to use a larger punch and registration pins for the project. You will no doubt want to mount some form of a step wedge into the process to allow you to control exposure and processing of the separations. By mounting your original into a larger piece of film you can also add a small step wedge along side of the original. If you use just the 35mm original you could have the step wedge showing through the sprocket holes of the transparency.
    Gord
     
  17. Ektagraphic

    Ektagraphic Member

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    I may be way off with this and I don't mean to hijack this thread but would it be possible to print color from black and white buy using color paper and placing a couple of different filters in front of the film (cyan yellow etc.) and making a couple of exposures on the paper?
     
  18. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Subscriber

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    That's what we are talking about doing. But you will need three black & white negatives. Each negative will need to be exposed through a different filter: one through red, one through green, and one through blue. Then each negative will need to be printed onto one sheet of RA4 paper in sequence, and it will need to be exposed through the same filter it was exposed through on the camera. My questions are regarding how to get the three negatives to line up to keep the image in sharp registration since each one will need to be placed in the enlarger one at a time.
     
  19. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Subscriber

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    Ron, I have one more question. Assuming I get my registration issue solved and try an additive print, will I a color issue from not having the orange mask associated with color negative film? Will I need some sort of filtration for this? I will be using a color enlarger, but with gel filters for the additive exposures.
     
  20. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    AgX, I was thinking of sequential. Parallel will require some engineering! And it'd be especially hard considering the close-focus subjects I have in mind.

    I am not sure whether I will be doing this in the near term, I am just wondering what the modern (but still analogue) options are and how close they are to the historical processes.

    ~~~

    Greg I was guessing one could just use a filter or a piece of c41-processed but unexposed print film to get the mask if necessary; maybe I am wrong. Thanks for raising the issue for discussion....


    Thanks everyone for the continued flow of ideas and experience(s). I appreciate it!
     
  21. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Subscriber

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    Keith, since I will be using a color enlarger, I could color balance the lack of orange mask, but I like your idea of blank color negative base. I think I will end up contacting 4x5 negatives, so a blank piece of color film in the negative stage would work if I find it necessary. I suppose the same general process would work for Ilfochrome if the separations were developed as positives?
     
  22. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Greg;

    The orange mask is intended to correct for impurity in the negative dyes. Since there are no dyes involved, and if you use narrow printing and exposing filters, there will be no problem. In fact, your colors in a traditional color print will be better than a white light print from a negative.

    Use WR 98/99/70 for your combo.

    PE
     
  23. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Subscriber

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    Would I use the same filters you list for exposing the film in camera? Or the more traditional 25/58/47?
     
  24. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Subscriber

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    Nevermind. I read the descriptions of the filters and see that they are appropriate for both stages.
     
  25. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    Greg I'll be in Lexington in a few weeks; perhaps we could meet up and chat it out.
     
  26. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Subscriber

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    That would work if I weren't already in Miami. I won't be back in Lexington except the last week of December.