Commercial Gold toners

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by ann, Nov 16, 2004.

  1. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    We have been using Fotospeeds gold toner for sometime in our class and I would like to mix my own basic gold toner from scratch.

    I have checked the label, their website, etc. to determine what is being used in that formula other than water and gold , but it remains a mystery.

    Anyone have any suggestions for a substitute? I have a wide variety of exotic gold toners available so i don't need information regarding that classification of gold toners. Just the bare bone basic gold toner.

    Have also checked the Photoformulary but the only other gold toner they list (besides the exotic ones) is a protective one that has a very short shelve life; like none.
     
  2. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    My Compact Photo Lab Index (1977) has the formula for Kodak Gold Toner (Nelson) T-21. It also has rather detailed directions for use. This is a replenishable toner. If you are interested, I will post it to the Chemistry section of APUG.

    The Compact Photo Lab Index also has the GAF version of the Nelson Gold Toner plus the GAF 231 Formulation (Thiocyanate/Gold).

    In addition, it has Ilford IT-4 (Thiocyanate/Gold) and Ilford IT-5 (Gold/Thiocarbamide.
     
  3. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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  4. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    I have the formula for Nelson's Gold, GP-1, blue /gold etc.

    I didn't check my Morgan and Morgan guide for the Ilford It-4 but will do so. I don't think the IT-5 is going to help as it contains thiocarbamide which is found in sepia type toners, However, since i am not a chemist i could be way off balance on that one.

    usually one can find the ingredients for various products on the label, not the amounts of course but at least what it contains. Perhaps that is a US thing and isn't universal


    thanks for checking your resources for me.
     
  5. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    According to al old Kodak book, Nelson Gold can be replenished by adding a 4g/l gold chloride solution to it. (1g of Au-Cl / 250ml)
    The rate they suggest is 4cc every 50 8x10s for a warm brown.
     
  6. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    I already checked out Jack's .
    Commercial Gold toners do have a long life; however, GP-1 does not, neither do some of the "from scratch that contain Thiocyanate" of thiorea for that matter.
    The nice thing about the Fotospeed is it can sit around and then be available immediatley. With the others , they must be used within several hours of mixing.

    Can't have it both ways, i guess.

    I may try GP-1 and see what happens. We have been using this to split with selenium. However, i may give it a try in another context.
     
  7. Shesh

    Shesh Member

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    Ann,
    Did you consider Dupont-6T? It requires 3 solutions. Gold Chloride is added in just before use, hence economical and the 1st 2 solutions have a good shelf life.
    I will look up the formula and get back to you if you want more information regarding this toner.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2004
  8. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    thanks, appreciate it as I am not familar with the Dupont toner.

    We use Nelson's gold all the time and it does last a very long time with just general topping off with gold. Am not looking for brown tones, red tones, etc. We are toning with selenium and gold for extended times, which does not shift color but creates depth.
     
  9. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I've used Tetenal's gold toner for that. I don't know what's in it, but I was under the impression that it's a gold/borax toner?
     
  10. Shesh

    Shesh Member

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    Published in "The Darkroom Cookbook" by Steve Anchell:

    Use the gold tone modifier directly on a print to get a blue-black tone.

    Gold Tone Modifier
    Gold Chloride - 1 gram
    Potassium thiocyanate - 6 grams
    Water to make 1 liter

    In order to get purple brown to rich purple colors:
    Bleach with 6B-1 and tone with 6T-1. After toning in 6T-1, immerse it in a 3% sodium chloride solution and rinse the print briefly and place it in the Gold tone modifier for as long as desired (typically 2-16 minutes). Wash before drying the print.

    Varigram toning Bleach 6B-1

    Water - 750ml
    Potassium Ferricyanide - 22 grams
    Potassium bromide - 25 grams
    Water to make 1.0 liter

    Varigram toner 6T-1

    Water - 750 ml
    Thiourea - 3.0 grams
    Sodium hydroxide - 6 grams
    water to make 1 liter
     
  11. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    thanks Shesh,

    For what i am using this gold for i can't use the bleaching technique.

    I don't think i was a clear as i should have been when i started this question. There are two liquid gold toners available in my area Berg and Fotospeed. I was not aware of the Tetenal version, so i was trying to come up with a similar formula that could be mixed in advanced and used on the run as one can with those specific toners. Quick easy and a one stop shopping adventure.

    The other major gold toners we have on hand but result in something quite different than what i need for this particular application.

    I did check in the Morgan and Morgan Guide, but no Dupont formula., but i did find the Ilford ones and might give them a try.

    thanks to all.
     
  12. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Member

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    Gold Toner

    Tim Rudman has an excellent formula in his Toning Book

    Mark
     
  13. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    thanks, but am aware of this book as my students use it as a basic guide line.
     
  14. Andy Tymon

    Andy Tymon Member

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    Ann, I just looked at the fotospeed toner tips page and their discription of au20 gold toner produces the same effect as the formulary 231gold toner i.e. blue toneswhen used alone and red tones when used after sepia toning. I have also used the tetenal gold toner and it (if my memory serves me right) produced the same results. hope this is of some help.
    Best Regards
    Andy
     
  15. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    thanks Andy, i will revisit their spec sheet as i obviously missed that point ; which could have saved everyone :wink:
     
  16. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    now i remember why i passed up the 231, it is not stable after mixing the working solution. However, i may mix up a batch and give it a try.
     
  17. Stan. L-B

    Stan. L-B Member

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    Ann, good question,
    Shesh, thanks for a first class reply.