Considering a Mamiya rb67 Pro s

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by RonaldD, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. RonaldD

    RonaldD Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Location:
    Ontario, C
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Hello,
    I am considering a Mamiya rb67 pro s because of the rotating back.
    I do not however understand the concept ot inserting a black card or hat in front of the lens before the exposure to lock the miror or to end the metering and terminate the exposure reducing the miror shake on long/and short exposures.
    Unless a black card can be inserted quickly in front of the lens to terminate the metering would not this show a partly blocked photo?
    Please excuse my ignorance but this is something that I do not understand and I would have no one to materially show me how this works.
    Understanding the concept would help me tremendously.
    Are there any books available that shows how to take photos with the rb67 pro s other than just the users manual?
    Thanks
    Ronald
     
  2. djhopscotch

    djhopscotch Member

    Messages:
    148
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    With the rb system to pre lock the mirror you set the lens to mirror up, fire the shutter release on the body to lock the mirror. The use a shutter cable to fire the shutter in the lens. No card or hat is needed.

    Sent using Tapatalk
     
  3. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

    Messages:
    9,092
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Location:
    Ryde, Isle o
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Nothing to do with the mirror.

    The lenses have a strange way of doing long exposures. Rather than the more common B setting where the shutter stays open all the time the shutter button is pressed, when set to T, The RB 67 lenses require the shutter to be pressed to open the shutter then the speed dial needs to be rotated or the shutter cocked to close the shutter.

    Some people advocate blocking the lens with a black card before closing the shutter to minimise any shake. The longer the exposure, the less of a problem this will be.


    Steve.
     
  4. CGW

    CGW Member

    Messages:
    2,797
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    The good dj told the tale. It's a very simple, effective procedure made easier by the two-step mechanism. All you need is a regular cable release to screw into the lens. Mamiya makes a fancy-schmancy double barrel cable release that does the mirror-up/shutter release with one stroke but it's no big deal to do the mirror-up with the main shutter button, then trip the shutter with the cable release. It's just a rhythm thing, like the shutter cock/film advance two-step.

    It's a very cool system camera. The rotating back and no-sweat close-up capability are what sold me, along with the big 6x7 negatives/transparencies. These, together with very straightforward operation, more than outweigh its size and heft.
     
  5. CGW

    CGW Member

    Messages:
    2,797
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    KL lenses have separate releases for mirror-up and B shutter closing on their T setting.
     
  6. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

    Messages:
    9,092
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Location:
    Ryde, Isle o
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I know. I was addressing the OP's concerns about advice he had acquired for using a black card or hat. This relates to closing the shutter after a timed exposure and has nothing to do with the mirror lockup (although mirror lockup will probably be used as well in this situation).


    Steve.
     
  7. jmoise

    jmoise Member

    Messages:
    2
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Shooter:
    35mm
    There are a few very helpful Youtube videos out there. I just picked up an RB67 myself and they were great visual learning tools.
     
  8. RonaldD

    RonaldD Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Location:
    Ontario, C
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks Guys for some good info.
    Are there manuals better than the one that came with the camera?
    Or do you feel that it pretty well covers everything?
    Ronald
     
  9. CGW

    CGW Member

    Messages:
    2,797
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    It covers what you'll need in terms of functional/operational stuff--film loading, exposure comp./DOF calculations, RB functions, lens changing. It's a very straightforward, mechanical camera. Think it took about 15 minutes to figure it out. If get one, come back with questions. Lots of RB shooters around and at least one tech guru, too.
     
  10. Ric Trexell

    Ric Trexell Member

    Messages:
    257
    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Location:
    Berlin Wi.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    One thing about mirror up photos with the RB

    This is not an answer to your question, but just a tip that you will have to learn if you do mirror up exposures with the RB. After taking your first shot with the mirror up, it is tempting to just cock the camera and fire away. However, doing so does not cock the shutter. You will think you are taking a picture but you are not. This is easier to understand by taking a few shots with no film in the camera, (you will have to have the multiple exposure lever in the forward position) and put the shutter on a slow speed like 1/15th. You will hear the gears move the first time an exposure is made, but just cocking and firing the camera will not make the escapement sound. You will have to put the MU (mirror up) lever back and cock the camera. I have probably confused you, but just wanted you to watch for this. Ric.
     
  11. djhopscotch

    djhopscotch Member

    Messages:
    148
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    You mean that it doesn't fire the shutter? Lens will always re-cock with the body.
     
  12. Moopheus

    Moopheus Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,111
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2006
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    When you use MLU, you either turn a knob on the lens (C lenses) or a screw in a cable-release socket (K/L). Then you cock the shutter, press the body release, which lifts the mirror, and then the cable release in the lens, which fires the shutter. The only difficulty is that when you are done with MLU, remember to turn the knob/screw back to normal. Otherwise you will be cocking and releasing the mirror with the body and never firing the shutter. There was recently a thread about a couple of yutzes who got caught out by this.
     
  13. RonaldD

    RonaldD Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Location:
    Ontario, C
    Shooter:
    35mm
    They are certainly different than a 35mm system.
    About the hand in front, black card trick... my understanding of that now is that it is for timed or bulb exposure only.
    blacking the lens before closing the shutter and not having to use the cable release. please tell me for I may totally have that wrong.
    How is the mirror shake when using slow aperture which is not bulb?
    Another thing, I was looking at the Bronica because of 6x6 availability. but with the Mamiya 6x7 system, could a person that wishes a 6x6 portrait just
    take advantage of the 6x7 landscape mode and crop the sides to the 6x6 square therefore not loosing any resolution because you are not loosing any of the negative sort of speak?
    If that is the case in all possibility, would this be a plus for the 6x7 size?
    Of course I may well probably be completely wrong...once again; just trying to get knowledge.
    Thanks for your time and patience.
    Ronald
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. CGW

    CGW Member

    Messages:
    2,797
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Yup. The shutter is opened with the the cable release but closed by turning the shutter speed dial on T. I just gently pop the lens cap back on or put a hat or toque over the lens hood before closing the shutter. It's not like you're going to be doing this in broad daylight most times, right?

    My take on cropping is: want 6x6, shoot 6x6. I can't see wasting the negative real estate when 6x7 goes 8x10 or 16x20 so nicely. But sure, you can certainly crop in camera and enlarge to 6x6 only. I splurged and got a Bronica SQ-B for square stuff. Nice camera that can also easily go down to 645 for 8x10, too.
     
  16. RonaldD

    RonaldD Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Location:
    Ontario, C
    Shooter:
    35mm
    True,
    Does the RB67 pro-s have a screw attachment for the cable release.
    I read that one of the flaws of the 645 Pro tl is that the cable release does not screw in and you need an adapter that does not work very well.
    And about the lenses on the 645; apparently they are not a leaf shutter and are limiting in sizes. Is that the N series?
    If the cable are better on the RB67 and lenses are more compatible and are the leaf type I am sort of leaning that way.
    Apparently the RZ are a pain in the ass to fix and expensive and many repairmen won't even touch them.
     
  17. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

    Messages:
    17,054
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    Delta, BC, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Lots of questions!

    I have both cameras.

    The Pro-S uses standard screw in cable releases.
    The adapters for the 645 Pro-Tl that permit use of standard screw in cable releases work well for me. I have three different types.

    There are four lenses for the 645 series that have leaf shutters. There are old and new ("N") versions of three of them. They are somewhat more complex to use (require separate shutter cocking) than the more common, non-leaf shutter lenses, and I would recommend them more as special-purpose accessories than for every day use.

    The Mamiya 645 lens line is quite extensive, of generally high quality, and every manual focus lens in the line that has ever been made will fit on every camera body ever made in the line.

    I've never heard that complaint about the RZ line of cameras and lenses. One advantage of the RB lenses over the RZ lenses is that you can use the RB lenses on both the RB and RZ bodies, while the RZ lenses only work on the RZ bodies.

    The RZ line tends to be newer (although there is definite overlap) and the RZ benefits from electronic control of the RZ leaf shutters in the lenses.
     
  18. RonaldD

    RonaldD Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Location:
    Ontario, C
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks Matt,
    The more I read about the different models, the more I get confused.
    I am used to film going way back to the late 70's; but 35mm...
    I think I am getting confused with the Mamiya C330 and C220 models.
    THOSE are the ones with the leaf shutter in the lens enabling flash sync with all shutter speeds, right??
    Due to the nature of the SLR Medium Format, it is obviously a focal plane shutter.
    So the N system lens are actually leaf shutters in the lens and harder to use? is this what you meant?
    Victory camera has a nice 645 pro tl for sale, but it has the N series lens, is this type of lens better to avoid in my position
    because of the extra shutter cocking as per your thread response? If I understood correctly.
    Thanks, I may have this all wrong.... will the 645 lenses fit on the rb67's
    Ronald
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2012
  19. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

    Messages:
    9,092
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Location:
    Ryde, Isle o
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Mamiya RB67, RZ67, C330 and C220, Bronica SQ and ETRS are all leaf shutters in the lenses. Hasselblad V500 and Mamiya 645 have focal plane shutters but some lenses are available with leaf shutters.


    Steve.
     
  20. RonaldD

    RonaldD Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Location:
    Ontario, C
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks Steve,
    Things are slowly becoming uncluttered and categorized.
    Ronald
     
  21. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

    Messages:
    17,054
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    Delta, BC, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Ronald:

    Nope :smile:!

    In no particular order...

    There is no compatibility between the Mamiya C series TLRs, 645 series SLRs or RB67/RZ67 SLRS (save a couple of grips and tripod mounting accessories) and of course, they all use 120 and 220 film.

    As Steve posted, SLRs can have focal plane shutters, or not. If they don't have a focal plane shutter (e.g. an RB67), you need lenses with leaf shutters. If they do have a focal plane shutter, leaf shutter lenses can be designed to work with them (essentially they are set up to synch in a special way).

    TLRs like the Mamiya C220/C330 will most likely have leaf shutters only, although I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to have someone post that there are rare and esoteric exceptions that I have never heard of.

    The first Mamiya 645 came out in 1975, so there has been 37 or so years of product changes since then. Included in those changes you will find a number of changes in the lenses being sold.

    Some of those 645 lens changes can be tracked by noting the series changes in the lenses:
    a) the original lenses are designated simply as "C" lenses;
    b) in some cases, there were lenses issued in an "A" series (APO?). Those lenses are designated with the C, plus an A; and
    b) in some cases, there were lenses issued in an "S" series (for smaller?). Those lenses are designated with the C, plus an S; and
    c) finally, the most recent lenses were issued in an "N" series (for newer?). Those lenses are designated with the C, plus an N.

    In the case of the special purpose lenses that have leaf shutters as well, they have an "/L" added to their designation - e.g. 150mm f/3.8 N/L

    The 645 N lenses have the most modern coatings and are the newest. So in most cases they are the most desirable. In addition, in some cases they have improved optical designs and may be smaller and/or lighter (e.g. the 45mm f/2.8 N lens).

    There have been leaf shutter lenses issued in each of the series (or at least the C, S and N series - I think). So an N designation has nothing to do with whether or not a lens has a leaf shutter.

    I would suggest not worrying about having a leaf shutter option available unless you expect to need to use fill flash. If you don't use fill flash, leaf shutters and focal plane shutters behave in similar ways. If you intend to use fill flash a lot, the cameras designed around leaf shutters (RB67, RZ67 or C220/C330) are more convenient to use. That being said, the leaf shutter lenses for the 645 series are a reasonable option, because they can be used in either focal plane shutter mode or, somewhat less conveniently, in leaf shutter mode.

    Unless you are not expecting to use much fill flash, I wouldn't suggest that you let the availability of leaf shutters dictate your choice.

    Have you compared the handling, sizes and weights of RB67s and the Mamiya 645 Pro Tl?

    Hope this helps.
     
  22. EKDobbs

    EKDobbs Member

    Messages:
    124
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    Location:
    NC
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    As someone who owns a 645 pro and heavily researched the RB67, I'd suggest feeling the weight of the camera first. I thought moving from 35mm to 645 was heavy, but the RB is almost twice as heavy as the 645 when fitted with a lens. Not a walkaround kind of deal, and I would only move from 6x4.5 to 6x7 if I really needed the extra film space. I don't print above 8x10, due to some limitations in the darkroom, so 645 is probably more than enough for my purposes, resolution wise. The only thing I would gain is the macro-focus capability, slightly improved detail and rendering in my prints, and a good conversation piece. The flash-sync capabilities are unimportant to me, as I never work with flash and film.
     
  23. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

    Messages:
    9,092
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Location:
    Ryde, Isle o
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I consider the RB67 (with the left hand grip) to be a walk around camera but I do suggest people try to handle one first before buying as not everyone will agree with me!


    Steve.
     
  24. CGW

    CGW Member

    Messages:
    2,797
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I anchor mine to a Manfrotto 055 on a ballhead and just carry it with an extra back, film, maybe a polarizer, and meter. Mamiya 645 if I'm covering more real estate or need to move faster. The RB67's weight is a bit oversold.
     
  25. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

    Messages:
    17,054
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    Delta, BC, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I find that the size of the RB67 is more important than the weight, per se.

    Although once you ad a couple of extra lenses, it is the weight and the size that one notices.
     
  26. waynecrider

    waynecrider Member

    Messages:
    2,297
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2003
    Location:
    Floriduh
    Shooter:
    35mm
    That's the truth. An extra lens AND a prism viewfinder if you get one adds alot of volume. One other consideration is if shooting with a waist level or non-metered prism you have to allow for exposure on bellows draw on close shots according too the side mounted scale. If your a reasonably tall guy tho the camera and one lens is not a bad package and easily transportable. I'd rate it about the same as carrying a 4x5 Graphic with the RB a faster shooter and the Graphic with more abilities. One other option is the Pentax 67 II.