Constructive Criticizm please.

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by JohnRichard, Dec 1, 2009.

  1. JohnRichard

    JohnRichard Member

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    So I have a set of videos on youtube. I made them to help people understand what all went on with large format cameras. I did not make them for photographic genius or people that wrote text books.

    At the time, there were almost NO videos about 8x10 cameras on youtube. I wanted to see what other people were saying about it, so I just decided to help out, and made my own.

    Recently, there have been many negative comments in the way I have presented information in my video. If you would be so kind, please watch some of this video and give me feedback as to what you think.

    I respect this community, and the wisdom of its members. I think the majority of the people (whos non-helpful comments have been deleted), had a problem with the word "perspection". I also think, that if you have a camera to go play around with, the way I describe movements will make more sense. Thus, I come to the people in the know.

    Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N5Yq4JR2ug
     
  2. Jeff Kubach

    Jeff Kubach Member

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    I'm don't have a large format camera(I wish I did), the video seems OK to to me. I can't understand what the negative comments could be about.

    Jeff
     
  3. Mike1234

    Mike1234 Inactive

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    John, I wouldn't worry so much about what other people think. Some people are just jerks. The video could certainly be improved but, hey, I'm terrible in front of a camera so I wouldn't even make the attempt. I applaud your diligent efforts which far surpass what most would try.
     
  4. edtbjon

    edtbjon Member

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    Hi John!
    I've watched the #1 video in the same series and there's nothing wrong with your ambition. In my mind you definitely have the ability to produce good instructional videos. What seem to be lacking is experience with the medium, so there is definitely hope.
    All the pieces are there, but in a somewhat ackward order. I.e. you start with presenting the camera and some of its movements from a distance with yourself in the picture. Half way into the video you just about do the same thing again but with your video camera much closer to the camera. The second part makes much more sense, simply because it's easier to see what's going on, which makes a large section of the first part redundant. While I've only watched part or the #3 film, it's just about the same pattern. (Btw, I think there are plenty of videos on how to load a film holder, so you can either skip that part or make a separate video out of it.)
    Now, making good instruction videos is not an easy task and you are indeed doing quite a few things right. But it's somewhat longish and static. So in order to improve on your videos, try to make some kind of storyboard and add some tempo to it using a pre-written manuscript. Second, try to edit your videos and use shorter scenes, where you cover one subject in a scene and then change the angle or whatever for the next scene. As you can waste minutes of scenes and retakes at will with modern digicams without bothering about film cost etc. it should be quite easy to rise your project to the next level. Just be prepared having to go through a number of revisions before you find your own reciepe for success. (It's just about the same thing as learning that 8x10" and the progression from "just being able to make a shot with it" to "mastering the camera".)
    You are doing the very right thing in asking a dedicated community for criticizm as we know what you are trying to achieve. I do look forward to seeing your next phase. Keep up your work.

    //Björn
     
  5. jp80874

    jp80874 Subscriber

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    Are you sure you have the right word? If you type “define perspection” into Google they return definitions for perspective. Perspective is certainly something you are trying to control with a view camera.

    John Powers
     
  6. Mike1234

    Mike1234 Inactive

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    Okay, John. It seems there will be some interaction going on here. You've made a good move in posting for advice. May I suggest you seek someone with a lot of LARGE FORMAT and some STORYBOARDING and SCRIPTING experience to step in? They could supply a storyboard and a script from which to work. That's the very best advice I can give except be sure to use CUE CARDS and STICK TO THEM. :smile: Oh... and you don't have to do the shoot in one take... BREAK IT UP into several WELL-PLANNED/ORGANIZED SHORT TAKES and EDIT the BEST ones into one refined FINAL CUT. :smile:

    EDIT: It's important to use visual aids when explaining a complex idea. I suggest you either find those and ask permission to reproduce them or ask a computer graphics person for help. Or... you could just supply wikipedia or e-how links if available.
     
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  7. Whiteymorange

    Whiteymorange Subscriber

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    John,

    Beside the garbled word (perspection is not in any dictionary I can find), the video is a very good attempt to perform a useful service. I commend you for trying to make these videos. Having said this, I suggest you try different camera angles and better lighting, so that the items you are trying to show us are easier to see. I don't have any idea what kind of equipment or software you have access to, so I don't want to be too prescriptive, but editing for detail and effect would help you get your point across. I teach video making to middle and high school students, and I realize the challenge you've taken on.
     
  8. JohnRichard

    JohnRichard Member

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    Thanks for all the advice. I should have pointed out, I really wanted to know about my content. I agree, after several months, the length of the videos are a bit long. They have been up for quite some time. My problem was the comments on the way I presented content. I am never one to say that I know everything. I don't know everything, and thus, is why I like this community!

    Thanks again.
     
  9. Marco B

    Marco B Member

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    If you do end up feeling they are OK after a retake, please do post links to your videos in the new APUG Video section, for example in your case in the "Equipment" section.

    I somehow mysteriously ended up being top contributor in adding video links, but that was only because I posted a lot of links to videos about photographers...

    We could certainly use a lot more links to equipment, film, paper chem, darkroom etc... if others know good links, put them up too in the Video section of APUG.

    You just need to copy the YouTube link and hit the "Load information" button. Really easy!

    Marco
     
  10. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I looked at #3, and I think Björn makes a good point that the main thing you need at this point is more experience with the medium, as there are a number of things that aren't quite accurate, such as confusing tilt with swing at certain points, and, for instance, even though you can correct the shape of objects with rear tilt, when photographing a tall building it would be much more common to use front rise, because rear tilt alone will introduce a focus problem, and using front tilt to solve the focus problem will require pointing the camera up, and before you know it, you've applied indirect front rise, which is effectively the same as using front rise to begin with.

    So here's what you might try--for everything you want to illustrate, make a photo, scan the photo, and cut a slide of the image into the video. For instance, if you want to show how to photograph a tall building with a view camera, take one straight on shot of the building, one pointing the camera up on the tripod, one attempting to correct perspective with rear tilt, and another with front rise and the camera level, and explain each photograph, also showing the movements applied to the camera. You could shoot the video in the field and cut the slides in later. I think this kind of approach might both firm up your own knowledge and help you make a more useful video for others.
     
  11. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Subscriber

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    This is exactly what I do to demonstrate these movements to my Large Format classes using Fuji instant film. They see the movement applied and the resulting image, and a comparison to the previous image without the movement having been applied.
     
  12. Christopher Walrath

    Christopher Walrath Member

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    Hey, John. Hang tight, I'll get to it.

    You're right, definitely not a pro job. It is perspective you're looking for, not perspection. You come over kinda dryish. Someone probably took exception to your presentation style and focused on a couple of points just to make theirs.

    You know what? So what! I now know you, your voice, your face, and know that if I ever were to come back to Louisville for some White Castles I would have to look you up in Richmond (not sure where that is).

    Don't sweat. I love the 'Doin' the Twist.' Puts me in mind of some A of G preachers from my childhood. And that's, that's, about all. ;p
     
  13. sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

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    I'd drop the comedy
    I dont believe you care if a single person learns anything about these cameras
     
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  14. sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

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    ..
     
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  15. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    Oh God, some of those comments are just so grossly stupid. Please, who do they bloody well think they are with no references to any of their own work or skills capacity, they could be flipping burgers at McChuckers for kicks, rather than working earnestly on LF skills!

    Here some of my observations:

    Subtitles for hearing impaired people would be a very good idea as you gain skills and tinker with movies over time, and:

    • Have good lighting present soft focal spots, for yourself and camera/hands
    • Keep your face in full view of the camera: you do this well, but not consistently
    (and speak well, too), but the lighting is less than ideal and there are some obstructions and fumbly moments (we all have them!);
    • Don't look down or away at such an angle as to impede viewer lipreading capacity
    • Zoom in on important points such as movement controls.

    I like the video and I personally (as an art critic who literally set fire to a photograph with words) I'm not going to stoop so low as the utterly reprehensible respondents to your post on YouTube. I like your response:

    If you do not have a video yourself, or at least a web page, please do not comment. If you think you can make a better video, then do so. I encourage all videos about large format photography. If you think this video is horrible, simply comment and correct a mistake. I do not care if you think the video is crap. If you have nothing constructive to say, I will delete your comment.

    —spot on!
     
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  16. JohnRichard

    JohnRichard Member

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    Well, you all have inspired me to make a better video. And now, with the proper tools to do so, I shall. Thank you, and this wonderful community, for the corrections, and the encouragement!
     
  17. Christopher Walrath

    Christopher Walrath Member

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    You're Welcome, John. Like I said, they're just bored and small minded to just be picking on someone.

    I liked the video very much. It wasn't stiff. You dropped things.

    Hey, when you get your new video up and runnning, add it to the videos here on APUG.
     
  18. Vaughn

    Vaughn Subscriber

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    Great start! Not much for me to add to the other posts here.

    Some random suggestions:

    Clear the table of unneeded stuff (distracting)
    Better yet, put the camera on a tripod instead of loose on the table
    Be next to the camera, not behind it (the tripod might help this)
    Use the video camera focused on the GG to demo movements -- some tabletop still lives would be useful (get a lens!)
    Try to cover the same info in half the time

    Vaughn
     
  19. mhcfires

    mhcfires Subscriber

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    Looking forward to the next video. :smile: