Container for developer stock.

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Blooze, Apr 7, 2013.

  1. Blooze

    Blooze Member

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    It's been suggested to me to use the box wine bladders to store my developer in due to it's convenience and the fact you can squeeze the air out. I have worked in various chemical labs for 20 years and we currently receive some of our liquid mixes in these containers at 20L volumes. I was thinking the 1 gallon cubes might work well for storing 5L of developer in (well, just short of 5L anyway). You can get a normal spigot for them as opposed to the tube clamp and if they are the same as we receive the other mixes in the bladder is a thick, flexible plastic. When not in use just tip the box so the spigot is up and they can't leak. Bonus is we get discounted pricing and free shipping since we have been using them for many years for other supplies.

    Tell me what you think.

    http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=31622&catid=816
     
  2. ME Super

    ME Super Member

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    1 US gallon = 4 US Quarts = 3.784 liters (0.946 quarts/L) - significantly short of 5L. You need to order bigger containers if you plan to store 5L or just short of it.
     
  3. Blooze

    Blooze Member

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    True. I knew that there would be a little over a liter left. I could store the extra in a few smaller bottles for a premeasured pour and go solution. The only thing that concerns me is that most of the cubitainers I've ever used were LDPE, which is gas permeable which might defeat the purpose? I'm just trying to think of a way to mix and store developer in a convenient way without taking up a huge amount of space I don't have.

    I can get amber PET bottles fairly cheap in various sizes. They are at least less gas permeable.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2013
  4. noacronym

    noacronym Member

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    I think the best way is to mix up, say, a gallon of D-76 and put it up in 4 one-quart bottles you can buy from the pharmacy. A gallon of D-76 can last 2-3 years like that. When you start seeing a yellow color, get rid of it.
     
  5. albada

    albada Subscriber

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    Many plastics allow oxygen atoms to pass through, ruining the developer sooner. For this reason, the usual recommendation is to store developer in either glass or PET bottles (recycle code "1"). The cube referenced above is polyethylene, which isn't PET. Water and soda bottles are PET, so they are good for developer. You could try 5 1L soda bottles.

    Mark Overton
     
  6. noacronym

    noacronym Member

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    I use glass Microdol-X bottles from the 70's and 80's. You remember Microdol. A bottle of magic.
     
  7. Blooze

    Blooze Member

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    Thanks Mark.

    Yep. That was my one concern with the cubes as I mentioned, and everyone seems to confirm that.

    I can get practically any size bottle of any type of plastic I want for reasonable costs through the lab where I work. I found some nice amber PET bottles the other day in many sizes for cheap. I'm thinking of using ID-11 1+1 in a Paterson universal tank, so a few 150ml and 250ml bottles to hold aliquots of stock in for using right away (just add the equal amount of water before using), then refill those with the full liter bottles. That way all the bottles pretty much stay full at any given time.
     
  8. BMbikerider

    BMbikerider Member

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    I absolutely swear by dark brown glass bottles. I get mine from 2 sources. 1 they are cleaned out empty wine bottles .6 of a litre or. 2. half litre screw cap medicine bottles that I buy from my pharmacy for literally next to nothing. I store everything from diluted Ektacolour RA4 replenisher to Ilford Multigrade developer, to the 1st developer used for E6 reversal (Thats the one that goes off )and they literally keeps for years. In both cases I decant one 500cc bottle down into 100cc bottles when I need to break into the next bottle, I find 100cc is just about the right amount for an evenings work.

    With the E6 1st developer that will still deteriorate as the level drops, but quite a bit slower than the plastic bottles, so when I take out the quantity I need, I top up the bottle using old glass beads from a cheap broken necklace I bought from a junk shop.
     
  9. bernard_L

    bernard_L Member

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    Most plastic foils used in the food industry use, besides the main material (whether LDPE or other) a sophisticated sandwich of barrier layers aimed at blocking... oxygen. I have wine bladders set aside for storing developer, and they have a metallic appearance, probably a submicron thick aluminium layer. The oxygen barrier may also be a special polymer, also generally submicron thickness. I would rely on the 100's of man-years of R&D invested by the food and polymer industries. If in doubt, run control strips at regular intervals.
     
  10. ParkerSmithPhoto

    ParkerSmithPhoto Subscriber

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    US Plastic sells very inexpensive 500 ml amber glass. All of my film and paper developers go into these and stays wonderfully fresh. I don't think you can do any better. Every time I've tried plastic for devs i end up getting burned. Plastic is fine for stop-fix.
     
  11. fotch

    fotch Member

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    I had used plastic cubes in a box when they were sold for the photography darkroom. Impossible to clean, hard to get all the chemical out.

    Same with the accordion bottles. Squeezing air out of regular darkroom brown plastic bottles is OK, just not good for a long time storage.

    Instead, I purchased a bunch of new 250ml Amber Glass Large Mouth Bottles. I can mix developer and store in these bottles with no air so it would last longer. Then I could use one shot or 1:1, rinse the bottle, and reuse the next time I mix up a new batch.

    I purchased several gross of these bottles, new, surplus from Abbot or Baxter, and have sold dozens to members, if anyone needs any, send me a PM.

    Glass is classic, plastic is spastic. :D
     
  12. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Inactive

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    As others have stated I use the glass amber bottles from photographers formulary or other chemical distributors (they are all the same) HOWEVER ... PE has stated over and over that the light penetrating the bottles has no effect so you CAN use a clear glass bottle and it would be just as good as the amber ones.

    Secondly, the WINE bladders are certainly air tight... this is wine we are talking about... the most important aspect to keeping wine is to keep new oxygen from penetrating the container and thus spoiling the wine, so unless the chemicals break down the inner lining somehow, the wine bladders are probably a perfect choice for this kind of chemistry in terms of oxygen issues.

    Third... I'm curious about BMbikerider's comment about color developers.... how do you split the chems into 100ml's and then account for the time difference in development? like, ... say your E-6 times start at 6 minutes and every roll you run through the developer you're supposed to add 1.04 to the time, so then it's like 6.4 minutes then 6.9 minutes etc etc... but that's based on the water to developer ratio right? so when you start with 100ml instead of 500ml ... how do you calculate for the time difference? and how many rolls do you get out of 100ml? Or am I totally missing what you're saying?

    Thanks.
     
  13. fotch

    fotch Member

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    I like the amber bottles because they are less likely to be mistaken for something else, like water. Somewhat of a tradition. YMMV
     
  14. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Inactive

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    I think it would be best if we all put chemistry in clear water looking bottles and then put "this is totally water, it's not chemistry, and even though it's mine and not yours, you should go ahead and drink it anyway, I'm sure it's safe and totally not chemistry or poison I promise you, so go ahead, take a big gulp out of my bottle that isn't yours, it's ok"

    This will be a good thing for the world, gets rid of thieves AND fools in a single gulp... survival of the fittest and all that :smile:
     
  15. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    I use wine bladders all the time. They are of the "silvered" variety which in effect looks like foil. Haven't had a problem yet. The bags of course collapse as the liquid is drawn out so no air penetrates.

    Makes drawing stock solution out a quick, easy and accurate process.

    pentaxuser
     
  16. Ronald Moravec

    Ronald Moravec Member

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    Glass with the cone type inserts in the cap. Clean the inside top of the bottle before screwing down or sometimes they stick.

    I use one time use size, normally 120 ml. If you mix a lot at a time, you can decant from larger bottles as required.

    Glass never leaks air and is cleanable.
     
  17. Blooze

    Blooze Member

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    Thanks for all the suggestions. I was able to pick up some amber glass Boston bottles with the poly-cone caps locally. I purchased 6ea 32oz, 8ea 8oz, and 8ea 4oz bottles for $30. That should be plenty to get me started I think.