Converting a 116 and 616 Kodak camera to use 120 film.

Discussion in 'Camera Building, Repairs & Modification' started by waynecrider, Mar 30, 2013.

  1. waynecrider

    waynecrider Member

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  2. Richard S. (rich815)

    Richard S. (rich815) Subscriber

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    Very cool. Thanks.
     
  3. Chrismat

    Chrismat Subscriber

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    Those are nice tips! I have 4 116 folders I use fairly regularly. You can still get great results from using snipped plastic wall anchors which will fit into the ends of a 120 spool and then that spool will fit nicely in a camera like the Kodak 1A Autographic Special. The key for sharpness is a good lens but also film flatness so I do not advance to the next frame until I'm ready to take the next shot.

    Some 116 folders (like the Kodak 1A Pocket) have a flat spring loaded back which helps to keep the film flat.

    The color shot is from a Kodak 1A Autographic Special, the black and white (with selected focus) is from a Kodak 1A Pocket with the spring loaded back.
     

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  4. waynecrider

    waynecrider Member

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    I'm working on a 116 Autographic Junior right now so that color shot was of interest to me. Which lens does it have? Besides the instructions given in the PDF for adapting 120 spools I have seen where someone has taken dowel and inserted it into the cutoff end of the spool then slotted the dowel.

    I'd be interested in the anchor sizes you used. You must be using the straight anchors? Did you do anything for a pressure plate or did your camera have one? Mine only has two long runners at the extreme edges so I need to adapt one to the back.
     
  5. Chrismat

    Chrismat Subscriber

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    The 1A Autographic Special does not have a pressure plate, but everything I have taken with it has come out very sharp. I just make sure to only advance the film just when I'm ready to shoot. My only problem with the camera has been light leaks coming in from the back, I have been taping up the back with black gaffers tape and I think I have the leak problem solved. I also had Flutot's Camera Repair cla the shutter.

    I believe I did just buy basic straight anchors. I then took an exacto knife to two plastic pieces and trim off the same length a little at a time, put one on each end of a 120 spool until they fit in the camera. Pretty much just trial and error.

    Chris

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrismat61/
     
  6. Chrismat

    Chrismat Subscriber

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    Forgot to answer your question about the lens for the 1A Autographic: it's a 130mm Kodak Anastigmat, f6.3-f45.
     
  7. R Paul

    R Paul Member

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    I converted a vigilant six-16 with brass spacers on the roll holders. Just took the first pictures,can't wait to see them now!
    rob
     
  8. waynecrider

    waynecrider Member

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    Just adding on to this post as I finally shot a roll thru my converted Autographic Junior. It was a long road to conversion and then the weather went south and seemed like it rained constantly. I realized mid-roll that I screwed up when winding on "duh", forgetting that there was a numbers sequence, but I got a couple good ones that I'm going to scan for now and post in my Flickr account. I'll contact print them this week. The lens is a menicus, so I'm wondering how quality will be.

    The one thing about the conversion is that the film plane shifted back.025+ because of the new rails for the smaller film. I luckily had a medium format GG laying around and was able to remark the infinity mark on the cover bed scale. The problem is shooting closer for DOF. I'll have to print out and carry a DOF chart for the 135mm lens and then probably make a whole new distance scale.

    The picture attached shows on the far left the new location of the window for frame numbers. There was a brass insert under the "Autographic" area of the cover that had to be removed since it protruded to far into the body especially as concerns the pressure plate. I made a wood insert out of maple and cut a channel in it because the cover has a round protrusion down the center. I found that if I sanded the bottom of the insert I could vary the pressure on the film winding till it was just right.
    The middle shows a floating pressure plate .010 that I made for it. It works perfect and doesn't move on film wind. On the right you see the rails I made out of .025 brass. It was the thinnest and stiffest I could use. I had to adhere the brass first and then paint the back side inside the bellows that showed. That was a pita. My top mounted finder is off an old 616 Monitor camera. It barely shows in the photo.

    Overall it was a fun project. I caution anyone following in my footsteps not to use the crappy Rustoleum flat paint from the home remodeling stores as it was just not smooth enough. I had to sand it with 600 wet dry and then had to re-spray it and sand again. I wonder if a spray can of hobby paint would have been better. The paint looks lousy but it's smooth at least.
     

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  9. NedL

    NedL Subscriber

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    That floating pressure plate is a good idea. Nicely done!
     
  10. waynecrider

    waynecrider Member

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    Pictures Posted

    I posted two pictures from the camera in my Flickr account:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/60642438@N02/9232638587/

    The first picture is with a yellow filter and with a judgement call on close focus and the next (click right arrow) without filtering and not cropped, at infinity.

    Acros Film in Diafine, Levels endpoints brought in to histogram, no sharpening.

    The negs look better then the scans, although in the Epson scanner dialog box the images look much sharper. I look forward to contact printing these.
     
  11. nosmok

    nosmok Subscriber

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    You can also just find some old 116 or 616 film, and some (old or new) bulk 70mm film, and roll a chunk of 70 into the backing paper of the old 116 or 616, and get all of that wonderful huge negative in your pocket! Repeat until your paper disintegrates, should take a long time.

    --nosmok
     
  12. waynecrider

    waynecrider Member

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    Yeah, that reminds me of conversations on this topic about 15 years ago. Tell you the truth, the conversion is easier, the film better what with what we have now and the reels have a wider spool diameter. You also don't have to buy 70mm tanks and you can shoot color and send it out.
     
  13. Joe Monahan

    Joe Monahan Member

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    Tomorrow I'm 3D printing some "end caps" I modeled in Google SketchUp. They will snap on to the ends of 120 roll film and then (hopefully) slide into the cameras - I'm doing a set for a 122 format camera and a set for 130 format. To convert the film gate I just cut some aluminum flashing with a box cutter, sanded it smooth, painted it with cheap flat black spray paint. I'll glue the strips into place with some superglue type stuff.

    If it works, I'll do up a little tutorial. If it doesn't I'll hang my head in shame and drift away :smile:

    Any comments/suggestions etc are more than welcome!

    Joe
     
  14. mhcfires

    mhcfires Subscriber

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    I would love to be able to use my old Kodak Folding Brownie 3A. It uses 122 film, I have a few rolls (6) but it is such a PITA to develop that I just don't use the camera. If your "end caps" work out let me know. :smile:

    m
     
  15. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Why not convert the 122 to like a 4x5 back? Would that be more practical?

    How do you develop it? Is there an old SS reel you have to scrounge for?


    Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. BigWahoo

    BigWahoo Member

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    Hello all I have several 616 cameras. I want to be able to use them. I know I could come up with a way to make 120 film work;but don't want to reinvent the wheel.

    I did a search for converting 616 cameras to 120 and found references to this pdf in several places including this forum.

    I cannot get these links to the pdf to work. Does anyone have a copy or know the correct address?

    Thanks to everyone on this forum.
     
  17. mhcfires

    mhcfires Subscriber

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    There are still a few Nikor 122 SS reels floating about. I found one on fleabay a few years ago, but the price quickly escalated to the stratosphere. I wasn't about to spend $100+ for one of those reels. I have a great old Kodak Folding Browinie 3A and a few rolls of film, but it isn't worth it to me. to spend that money and the film gets older and older.
     
  18. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Welcome to APUG.

    The linked pdf documents open easily for me, so I do not know what is getting in the way of your accessing them.
     
  19. BigWahoo

    BigWahoo Member

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    Thanks; I tried again today and they worked without a problem.