Cool enlarger trick...

Discussion in 'Enlarging' started by ic-racer, Oct 31, 2008.

  1. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,473
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    When the enlarger is correctly focused, I can raise the head a little and re-focus and the image is smaller. As I keep raising the enlarger head, and re-focusing the image, and the sharp, projected image keeps getting smaller and smaller!!!

    I have a simple diagram that shows how it works, can anyone figure it out before I post it?
     
  2. bsdunek

    bsdunek Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,351
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Location:
    Michigan
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Beats me! My image gets larger when I raise the head. Refocusing does make it a little smaller, but not as small as it was with the head lower.
    Maybe somethings wrong with your enlarger - got the lens upside down?
     
  3. richard ide

    richard ide Member

    Messages:
    1,227
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Location:
    Wellington C
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    If you extend the bellows, the image gets smaller. If you compress the bellows the image gets larger. As a hypothetical example: if your film plane and easel are placed to give say a 200% enlargement and focused for sharpness of image; if you extend your lens towards the easel, it will come in to focus again at 50% size. Easy to do with a long bellows such as on a process camera, but a much more restricted range on an enlarger.
     
  4. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Subscriber

    Messages:
    9,083
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Location:
    Ryde, Isle o
    Shooter:
    Medium Format

    Yes. You have the enlarger upside down!



    Steve.
     
  5. richard ide

    richard ide Member

    Messages:
    1,227
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Location:
    Wellington C
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Steve's answer is more thought provoking and I love it. :D:D:D
     
  6. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,473
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thats actually pretty close ... :tongue:

    Can anyone be more specific?
     
  7. Gatsby1923

    Gatsby1923 Member

    Messages:
    243
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Location:
    Holyoke, MA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Projecting onto the ceiling then?
     
  8. Poohblah

    Poohblah Member

    Messages:
    433
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    are you moving the easel, too? or just the enlarger head?
     
  9. Frank Szabo

    Frank Szabo Member

    Messages:
    312
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Location:
    Broken Arrow
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I haven't a clue, but I'll bet Mr. Brunner could figure it out using 5 pounds of sausage.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2008
  10. Removed Account

    Removed Account Member

    Messages:
    907
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    Location:
    Nanaimo, Bri
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Are you switching to longer focal length lenses?
     
  11. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Subscriber

    Messages:
    9,083
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Location:
    Ryde, Isle o
    Shooter:
    Medium Format

    O.K. You're using the enlarger as a camera.


    Steve.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2008
  12. ath

    ath Member

    Messages:
    889
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Your print is smaller than the negative.
     
  13. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

    Messages:
    19,990
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Location:
    local
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    you have an auxillery bellows on your enlarger ... you are making reductions instead of enlargements
    and you are refocusing the auxillery bellows, not the enlarger-stage.
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,473
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yes!
     
  16. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,473
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,473
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I ran into this doing 1:1 projection prints. When distances A and B above are nearly equal, you can focus through both focal points. It is pretty cool because as you focus, the image becomes clear, then as you continue to move the lens stage, it gets blurry and then comes into clear focus again as you pass from slight enlargement to slight reduction. Once in the territory of 'slight reduction,' raising the head makes the image smaller.
     
  18. Poohblah

    Poohblah Member

    Messages:
    433
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    just out of curiosity (and ignorance), why would you make 1:1 projection prints if you could simply make a contact print? no glass easel available? easier dodging and burning?
     
  19. richard ide

    richard ide Member

    Messages:
    1,227
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Location:
    Wellington C
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I think my first post answered the question although possibly in different terms.

    Regarding making 1:1 prints in an enlarger: I sometimes would get orders for several hunded prints from one negative. Using an enlarger was at least ten times faster than contacts with fewer artifacts to spot. With the Wild enlarger I used, it was very difficult to tell the difference in quality.
     
  20. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,473
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I was actually comparing the two methods.

    Since projection prints are much easier to make in my darkroom, I wanted to compare some 1:1s to to contact prints. I'm not going to comment on which looks better at this time. I know my Rodenstock 300mm lens field flatness deteriorates at 1:1, thus requiring f16, so the tests have not been 'fair.' A process lens would be better, but I don't have one.
     
  21. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,473
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yes.
     
  22. frotog

    frotog Member

    Messages:
    749
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    Location:
    third stone
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Great post. Just the other day I stumbled upon the two focal pt. phenomenon when setting up for making prints at 1:1. Another aspect of 1:1 printing that I'm finding especially vexing is focusing; grain appears sharp under grain focuser, but soft in print. Any ideas?
     
  23. richard ide

    richard ide Member

    Messages:
    1,227
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Location:
    Wellington C
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    "Great post. Just the other day I stumbled upon the two focal pt. phenomenon when setting up for making prints at 1:1. Another aspect of 1:1 printing that I'm finding especially vexing is focusing; grain appears sharp under grain focuser, but soft in print. Any ideas?"

    Possible reasons could include: chromatic aberrations, haze on lens surfaces causing flare, enlargement factor outside recommended range, uncoated lens etc. etc.

    What lens are you using and is it coated?

    Another possible reason might be your grain focusser being off.
     
  24. youngrichard

    youngrichard Member

    Messages:
    142
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Location:
    London, Engl
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Cool enlarger trick

    Grain sharp in focusser, not on print... I think there is unjustified faith that all grain focussers are spot on. I have several grain focussers, including long and short Patersons, a Peak 111, and a Focoblitz. I focussed on the grain at high magnification with each and printed a small section from the middle of the negative. Only the Focoblitz gave sharp grain in the print. So the others are very slightly "out". You could try focussing a little above and below the point that your focusser says is sharp, to see if your grain gets any sharper in the print. Unfortunately there is no way to calibrate or adjust any grain focusser that I have seen.
     
  25. glbeas

    glbeas Member

    Messages:
    3,307
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2002
    Location:
    Roswell, Ga.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You can correct in one direction by pasting sheets of paper to the bottom of the focusser. The other way is a bit problematic, most folks wouldn't want to sand material off the bottom of thier scope to correct it.
     
  26. ZorkiKat

    ZorkiKat Member

    Messages:
    346
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Location:
    Manila PHILI
    Shooter:
    Multi Format

    In some grain magnifiers, the mirror can be moved up or down with a simple set screw. The aerial image therefore is moved as well. The key is to get the mirror surface (if front-surfaced mirror is used) to enlarger lens distance exactly the same as the mirror surface to magnifier base/paper surface distance. Just like the reflex mirrors of slr cameras.