Cooltone developer

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by ajuk, May 29, 2007.

  1. ajuk

    ajuk Member

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    I just bought used it for the first time today and I just don't see any difference from the normal Ilford developer, Do I need to start using FB paper to see any difference?
     
  2. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Member

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    No. It's pretty subtle. Compare two prints side by side under daylight and you should see it -- but use it with cooltone paper too. For REAL cooling, use some gold toner afterwards.

    Put it this way: it showed up OK in repro in Shutterbug. (This information from Frances who knows a lot more than I).

    Cheers,

    R.
     
  3. ajuk

    ajuk Member

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    OK, its just in the review for it in B&W photographer, I noticed that the FB paper the reviewer used had a much more dramatic response to the CT developer.
     
  4. Les McLean

    Les McLean Subscriber

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    I also use Cooltone Developer with Warmtone paper and get a very cold almost blue print colour.
     
  5. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Member

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    Dear Les,

    That comes from living so far north. Down here in the northern Aquitaine it's not so marked. (This from Frances, who sends her love).

    Cheers mate,

    R.
     
  6. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    With RC paper, Multigrade and Cooltone, both with Cooltone Dev I still found the difference fairly subtle unless a direct comparison is done. However do the same shot, using both papers with Cooltone Dev and it becomes pretty obvious.

    Cooltone paper with Cooltone Dev seemed particularly suited to shots of machinery/metallic objects. A friend's BSA Lightning came out particularly well.

    pentaxuser
     
  7. David Brown

    David Brown Subscriber

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    Well, I might not call it blue, but I got the most marked difference from Ilford's Cooltone developer with their warmtone paper when I did a recent developer/paper comparison. However, in practice, if I wanted cool/cold tones, I likely wouldn't start with warmtone paper. :wink:
     
  8. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    Les' comment raises an interesting question. Does Warmtone paper in Cooltone dev produce as cold a print as Cooltone paper in Cooltone dev? David Brown's comments would suggest not in his experience but this is an inference on my part based on his last sentence. If not are there other compensating features with Les' combination?

    This is esentially a Scottish( value for money) question in that unless there are compensating features, it is much cheaper to produce cold tones with Cooltone paper. Cooltone paper is about the same price as Multigrade IV whereas Warmtone is considerably more expensive. At least in RC which is what I use.

    pentaxuser
     
  9. psvensson

    psvensson Member

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    I haven't tried Ilford's cold tone developer, but I tried Clayton Ultra Cold and home-brewed Max Muir Blue-Black developer on a variety of RC papers a while back. The coldest results came from Forte papers, especiallly Polywarmtone! That is one heck of a paper. Polygrade went pretty cold too. I tried all three flavors of Ilford MG. Cooltone paper turned out less cold than Warmtone, if IIRC. The Max Muir formulation gave a stronger tone than the commercial developer.
     
  10. Rob Archer

    Rob Archer Member

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    I've just discovered Kentmere Bromide in Ilford Cooltone. A really lovely cool black but not quite blue-black. I've found it needs a full development (min. 3 mins in fresh dev at 1+9)

    Kentona is also very nice in it - quite a 'plummy' black.

    Stand by for a print scan (if I can get my scanner to work!)

    Rob
     
  11. David Brown

    David Brown Subscriber

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    Maybe ...

    Let me elaborate on my prior post.

    In my unscientific test, I took a negative, and made 2 sets of 4 pairs of identical prints. (16 prints) One set on Ilford MGIV and one set on MGWT. The pairs from each set were developed in Kodak Dektol, Ilford Multigrade, Harman Warmtone and Harmon Cooltone. Then one from each pair was selenium toned. This gave me 1 print with each of the combinations of paper/develop/toner.

    I had intended to post the results in the gallery here on APUG. However, the results were too subtle to survive scanning and screen display. Although after this thread, I may try again anyway. There were differences. However, (IMO) it takes viewing the actual prints under different lights to fully see the impact of the differences, hence my decision not to scan and post here.

    "In my opinion", the most striking difference between any of the developers on the same paper was the Cooltone on Warmtone paper. This is only compared to the other developers on warmtone paper. Now, as to the question: "Does Warmtone paper in Cooltone dev produce as cold a print as Cooltone paper in Cooltone dev?" In my opinion, not quite. Given the extra cost of warmtone paper, and other variables, I would not start with warmtone paper in the first place if I wanted cool tones to begin with.

    But, there are printers out there who use nothing but warmtone paper. If they were occasionally faced with an image that needed a cooler treatment, then keeping a bottle of the developer on hand would make more sense (to me) than buying a different paper.

    And, of course, another paper will be different!

    Hope this doesn't muddy the waters too much. And as always: your mileage may vary ... :wink:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2007
  12. ajuk

    ajuk Member

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    Just to be clear about this, Different papers will react a different amount, and Ilford MG only has a very subtle reaction? I noticed Forte Polywarmtone had a very strong reaction, is that not because it was FB but because it was a WT paper?
     
  13. UKJohn

    UKJohn Subscriber

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    I've used the cooltone dev with Ilford Warmtone paper then selenium toned. This I've found gives a nice result, it holds back the warmth of the paper but still allows it to react with the Selenium.
     
  14. catem

    catem Member

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    I agree this combination selenium toned can be very nice - it can give a slight split reddish/blue tone.
     
  15. psvensson

    psvensson Member

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    Right, the tone of RC Polywarmtone is also very dependent on the developer. Also takes a strong tone from gold toner, the strongest I've seen, if you're looking for a blue tone.
     
  16. bwakel

    bwakel Subscriber

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    I use Ilford Cooltone developer with Adox Polywarmtone and Foma Fomatone papers. My own view is that the cooltone developer really only comes into its own when toning. Particularly with the Foma paper, the cooltone developer neutralises the inherent warmth in the darker tones. If I then tone the paper in selenium and/or sepia, I get the lovely, strong effect that warmtone papers produce with these toners but with much more neutral blacks than would otherwise be the case. This produces a very nice split-tone effect of warm highlights and neutral (not cold) blacks.
     
  17. craigclu

    craigclu Subscriber

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    I've had a 250 sheet box of Ilford FB Warm Tone paper sitting here from a misc goods large auction purchase. It is matte and the few times that I've attempted to get some use from it, I was disappointed in the bland look that it had and assumed it was shelf ballast for me. I recently decided to try some Ansco 130 (the benzotriazole variant). I was doing some wedding candids and for fun, I tried the paper/developer combo. This paper really came alive with this developer. A slight Selenium bath and the shots have a very nice impact and make a good solution for this project. I should be more quick to try combinations that don't initially seem compatible, I guess.