Copy Camera Lenses Advice needed

Discussion in 'Antiques and Collecting' started by Studio935, Apr 21, 2005.

  1. Studio935

    Studio935 Member

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    Hi all I'm a new member. I used to have a darkroom and am looking to set one up in the next few months. Mostly I shoot images to use in my artwork andf slides. Copy Camera lenses! I have a bunch. The studio I live in was a camera factory that used to build the old room sized cameras and some of the 8x10 and 11x14 as well. I was wondering what to do with them all. My landlord wants to clear the basement and I have posted a few up on ebay but it's a lot of stuff and time. Basically is there an aftermarket for these lenses? Some are Taylor & Hobsons some are Cooke, Wollensaks, Rodenstock, Bausch & Lome. Can anyone reccommend what I need to do. I don't want to give them away on ebay but I don't know how to evaluate them for price or where to go. For my own slide photography I'd be using a 4x5 camera at the most. Maybe a 5x7 but most galleries prefer 4x5 or 35mm for slide submissions. Anyway I could make use of some of them but I can't store them forever either.
     
  2. bobfowler

    bobfowler Subscriber

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    Process lenses! Hmmm... What 'cha got? A lot of us here use them...
     
  3. rbarker

    rbarker Member

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    It's just like being "The Man" at the North Pole prior to Christmas. Make a list, check it twice, and then post it here for further advice. :D
     
  4. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    If they're in shutters post the shutters to. :wink:
     
  5. argus

    argus Member

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    Do you ship to Belgium?
     
  6. Studio935

    Studio935 Member

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    Copy Camera Lenses A Partial List

    Hello I was wondering about the value of these. I have several
    I have found recently and am wondering if I should sell them or hang onto them.
    List below

    Wollensak 8 1/4" 209mm f/4.5 Raptar Copy lenses. I have 30-40 of these

    Wollensak BETAX #5 Shutter - shutter works fine but the aperture has two pieces kinked and off track

    19 inch f:10 ILEX Process Paragon No. 100. I have 2 or 3 of these

    10 1/2" F:10 ILEX Graphic Paragon P5446

    20 in EF Zeiss Anastigmat Series IIA
    Pat.Jan 13,1891
    Bausch & Lome Optical Co. Rochester, NY
    449642

    C.P. Goertz AM. OPT CO. Apochromat Artar 30 in F:12.5 No. 759551

    Doppel Anastigmat F11 DRP No.74437
    C.P. Goertz Berlin
    Serie IV No. 9 F600 m/m
    No. 30001

    Carl Zeiss Jena Nr. 625133 Apochromat Planar f:9 f-59cm
    XII with Douthitt Diaphram-Control Series 5Z4

    E-221 Fugi Photo Optical 273233

    Goertz Apochromat Artar 16 1/2" F:9.5 No 794925

    C.P Goertz Berlin New York
    Double Anastigmat
    US. Pat No. 528155 Series IV No.8 Foc. 19in

    Goetz Gotar F:8 Focus 19in No.393866

    Goertz Apochromat Artar F:15 Focus 35in No. 752667

    Cooke Lens
    8 x 10 inches
    H.D.Taylors Patents
    May 26, 1895 Sep 22 1896
    Series III 5x7 inches Eqfocus 8.5 inches
    Taylor Taylor & Hobson LTD
    New York, Leicester & London
    No.11053
    Good condition normal wear on outside. Lenses clear no scratches. Aperture though
    has extremely tight movement

    13 inch series V
    Cooke Process Lens
    8 x 10 inches
    Taylor Taylor & Hobson LTD
    Leicester, London & New York
    No. 57094
    Hand scribed on the side is Jahn & Ollier
    Good condition normal wear on outside. Threads on back are kinked and rolled over
    in a few spots. Lenses clear no scratches. Aperture has smooth movement

    16 inch series V Cooke Process Lens
    Taylor Taylor & Hobson LTD
    Leicester & London
    No. 99578
    Good condition normal wear on outside. Lenses clear no scratches. Aperture has smooth movement. I have one complete one and a second missing the back

    18 inch series V Cooke Process Lens Leicester & London No. 104837
    Good condition normal wear on outside. Lenses clear no scratches. Aperture has smooth movement. I have 3 of these complete and one missing the front.

    The Following are the lenses I currently have listed on Ebay.
    Rodenstock Klimsch Apo-Ronar 1:9 f 600mm A Lens 3271887

    Royal Symmetrical Lens 6 1/2 x 8 1/2 REGNO Mounting collar and filter threads seem to be fine. Back lens on the film side has some fine snowflaking along the very edge but the center remains clear.

    Goerz Gotar F8 Focus 14in No 394754 attached to 5 7/8" square mounting board. Filter threads are clean and clear.

    Wollwnsak Velostigmat Series 1 F6.8 11x14 No8923, Pat. Feb 6 1900 & Pat. July 23 1901 This lense has a Mounting collar which turns easily but the filter threads are kinked

    16x20 Zeiss Anastigmat Bausch & Lome Optical Co.

    KODAK PROCESS EKTAR LENS 12 inch F:10 APOCHROMATIC ET105

    Can the lenses be adapted or just to be used on vintage bellows cameras?
     
  7. Studio935

    Studio935 Member

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    Copy Camera Lenses also

    I also have two cases of new 11x14 dark slides. Does anybody still shoot 11x14? Helix Camera told me no one uses tham anymore but I know there is a market out there somewhere. In my lifetime if I had an 11x14 camera I don't think I could wear out this many. Thay were still in the crates so they've never been used.
     
  8. Studio935

    Studio935 Member

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    Sure I'd ship to Belgium.
     
  9. Jim Chinn

    Jim Chinn Member

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    how many darkslides to a case?
     
  10. Studio935

    Studio935 Member

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    Dark Slides

    I have one case of sixty (30 sets) and another of about twenty.
     
  11. John Koehrer

    John Koehrer Subscriber

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    The guys at Helix are down on film, They've gone from 13 stores to 5 in the last 3-4 yrs. It's too bad,one time they were a major player in the Chicago area A couple of years ago I bought 23 assorted large format lenses from their LF dept. for $100. I didn't feel bad about that at all. At the same time they weren't buying used Deardorff 'cause they felt the market was saturated & didn't think they could get $500 for an 8X10.
    It may take a long time to get rid of the slides, but there's someone out there looking for them.
     
  12. bobfowler

    bobfowler Subscriber

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    30 to 40?!? :surprised: My God...
     
  13. Studio935

    Studio935 Member

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    What I'd like to do is build a camera that will use a couple of the lenses and sell the rest. If I can clear out the storage area where the camera equipment is I can build a darkroom. All the sinks and valve contols enlargers and stuff are there. I just can't get to it all. Unfortunatley when my landlord bought the building several years ago they had several of the room sized copy cameras still in the crates but they scrapped them. For my art I use a lot of ortho film high contrast positives -silkscreen and photo intaglio etching - so one of the old copy cameras still operational would be ideal. But I have the blueprints and will eventuall get one built from the spare parts lying around. Which type of camera would you guys recommend building to utilize some of the lenses I have? 11x14 or 8x10? There is a 4x5 that I have access to so I won't have to build one of them. Anyway any advice appreciated.
     
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  15. onestopdown

    onestopdown Member

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    I am a member of a letterpress listserv and saw this message from Mark Phillips at Studio 935 today. Though you'd like to see how he seems to view the people here at APUG.

    Well this list is so diverse I thought I'd pose a question. I have a number of Copy camera lenses that I am trying to sell. I have posted a list up on a large format photography list but no one will give me a price but they are making offers for several of the items. Ever feel like a fat man at a cannibal convention? Does anyone here know about lenses and could help me determine a value? I feel like I'm a little too ignorant about cameras to get a good price.
     
  16. Studio935

    Studio935 Member

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    The reason I said that is no one is giving me any answers still. I think Joe is the only one who has responded without wanting to pick out the good stuff first. I meant no disrespect to this or anyother list but when someone asks for help and just gets offers you have to wonder if you're being taken for a fool. Hense the fat man remark.
     
  17. Studio935

    Studio935 Member

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    BTW I'll speak for myself I don't need anyone doing it for me. I've been to about twelve different sites over the past week and haven't been able to get a clue about value. I've contacted Cooke with no reply, several antique camera sites and several lists. I even had one guy try to give me a hundred dollars for the lot of them. So when I say that I feel like a fat man at a cannible convention well I do. But not due to any one list or person but the whole situation.
     
  18. jimgalli

    jimgalli Subscriber

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    "Fat Man at a Cannibal Convention"

    You've got us pegged about right:D

    Best thing to do is put the stuff on Ebay a piece or two at a time and you'll know in 7 days what it was worth. The LF market is so volatile these days there's no telling what stuff is worth from one week to the next. I'll venture some educated guesses on some of your items:

    Wollensak 8 1/4" 209mm f/4.5 Raptar Copy lenses. I have 30-40 of these $45-$55 each........but this many will saturate the market of folks who might be interested. Dagor 77's been selling these for a while.

    Wollensak BETAX #5 Shutter - shutter works fine but the aperture has two pieces kinked and off track Parts shutter $30

    19 inch f:10 ILEX Process Paragon No. 100. I have 2 or 3 of these $55-$75

    10 1/2" F:10 ILEX Graphic Paragon P5446 $30

    20 in EF Zeiss Anastigmat Series IIA
    Pat.Jan 13,1891
    Bausch & Lome Optical Co. Rochester, NY
    449642
    $25-$35

    C.P. Goertz AM. OPT CO. Apochromat Artar 30 in F:12.5 No. 759551Uncoated $175?

    Doppel Anastigmat F11 DRP No.74437
    C.P. Goertz Berlin
    Serie IV No. 9 F600 m/m
    No. 30001
    Don't really know. Few benchmarks.

    Carl Zeiss Jena Nr. 625133 Apochromat Planar f:9 f-59cm
    XII with Douthitt Diaphram-Control Series 5Z4
    No clue? Could be kind of valuable.

    E-221 Fugi Photo Optical 273233 From a Xerox machine and worth $5 or less.

    Goertz Apochromat Artar 16 1/2" F:9.5 No 794925Coated Artar in a good useable length. Assuming nice shape. $225

    C.P Goertz Berlin New York
    Double Anastigmat
    US. Pat No. 528155 Series IV No.8 Foc. 19in
    Don't really know

    Goetz Gotar F:8 Focus 19in No.393866 $60?

    Goertz Apochromat Artar F:15 Focus 35in No. 752667 $375?

    Cooke Lens
    8 x 10 inches
    H.D.Taylors Patents
    May 26, 1895 Sep 22 1896
    Series III 5x7 inches Eqfocus 8.5 inches
    Taylor Taylor & Hobson LTD
    New York, Leicester & London
    No.11053
    Good condition normal wear on outside. Lenses clear no scratches. Aperture though
    has extremely tight movement
    No clue

    13 inch series V
    Cooke Process Lens
    8 x 10 inches
    Taylor Taylor & Hobson LTD
    Leicester, London & New York
    No. 57094
    Hand scribed on the side is Jahn & Ollier
    Good condition normal wear on outside. Threads on back are kinked and rolled over
    in a few spots. Lenses clear no scratches. Aperture has smooth movement
    No clue

    16 inch series V Cooke Process Lens
    Taylor Taylor & Hobson LTD
    Leicester & London
    No. 99578
    Good condition normal wear on outside. Lenses clear no scratches. Aperture has smooth movement. I have one complete one and a second missing the back
    No clue

    18 inch series V Cooke Process Lens Leicester & London No. 104837
    Good condition normal wear on outside. Lenses clear no scratches. Aperture has smooth movement. I have 3 of these complete and one missing the front.
    No clue

    The Following are the lenses I currently have listed on Ebay.We'll know in a few hours.

    Rodenstock Klimsch Apo-Ronar 1:9 f 600mm A Lens 3271887

    Royal Symmetrical Lens 6 1/2 x 8 1/2 REGNO Mounting collar and filter threads seem to be fine. Back lens on the film side has some fine snowflaking along the very edge but the center remains clear.

    Goerz Gotar F8 Focus 14in No 394754 attached to 5 7/8" square mounting board. Filter threads are clean and clear.

    Wollwnsak Velostigmat Series 1 F6.8 11x14 No8923, Pat. Feb 6 1900 & Pat. July 23 1901 This lense has a Mounting collar which turns easily but the filter threads are kinked

    16x20 Zeiss Anastigmat Bausch & Lome Optical Co.

    KODAK PROCESS EKTAR LENS 12 inch F:10 APOCHROMATIC ET105Interesting lens but little or no value to the large format community although I'll vouch that the one I have has made at least one killer negative of up close details. These have a strawy color to the coatings that looks like it probably uses thorium or other rare earth glass.
    Can the lenses be adapted or just to be used on vintage bellows cameras?
     
  19. Studio935

    Studio935 Member

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    Thanks That gives me a ballpark so I can make some deals and know what type of trades I can make. I just don't like operating in the dark when the stuff isn't mine. For the Cookes I guess I'll hold off and wait for them to get back to me. I was getting a little pugnacious there. I haven't had a darkroom since I built one in my old studio in NC. and that was in '92. Having to learn about the old types of lenses, figuring out what they go to and trying to rate them is a little daunting all at once. Again Thanks.
     
  20. John Koehrer

    John Koehrer Subscriber

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    Studio 935,
    The Goerz doppel anastigmats are older Dagors & could also be pretty pricey. If you put them on ebay make sure "Dagor" appears in the description
     
  21. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

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    But check to make sure they are Dagors, since dialytes are also double anastigmats and Goerz made them too. A quick test is to count reflections on the glasses. Four strong reflections in front of the diaphragm, four behind = dialyte. Two strong, one weak on each side = Dagor.

    Cheers,

    Dan
     
  22. jimgalli

    jimgalli Subscriber

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    His lens doesn't have a diaphragm but a piece of dark cardstock in the slot would work. Dagor = 2 strong 2 weak though. And Mark you need to visit the "other" forum and read through landarc's bit about just how lousy stinking nasty awful that old DA is before you price it. Anyone would be doing you a favor to take it off your hands. Not hardly worth the postage to mail it.
     
  23. gma

    gma Member

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    I know that a month ago Surplus Shed sold some really clean Wollensak Raptar 209mm f/4.5 coated copy lenses with f/4.5 to 32 diaphragm for I believe $ 5.00 each. I bought one and should have bought a few more at the price. As far as I can determine copy lenses are highly corrected and work well on LF cameras if you have a Packard shutter or use really slow film, neutral density or other filters to get the shutter speeds long enough to use the "hat trick".
     
  24. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I suspect that Cooke isn't going to be able to tell you too much about the value of old process lenses. I think they even have a notice about that on their website. Your best bet is to put them up on eBay and see what they fetch. It's hard to price out lenses without more information than you've provided in the list. Are there iris diaphragms or waterhouse stops? Do they have shutters, and do the shutters work accurately? What is the condition of the glass? Are there scratches or is there any separation of elements? Are they in some impractical process camera mount? Are the flanges included? Are there lenscaps? Do you have pictures? If you want to auction them off, good descriptions with good pictures showing the condition of the glass will get you the best price.

    There is a steady market for lenses with lots of coverage for ultra large formats, but not all process lenses are regarded as desirable, as GMA notes above.

    Goerz Dagors (Doppel Anastigmats) longer than 14" like the ones you have--even old uncoated ones without shutters can go for quite a lot.

    If you have any coated Artars (look for the red dot), they usually sell for a good price--a few hundred even without a shutter.

    If you have new 11x14" filmholders, particularly plastic Fidelity holders, these go on eBay for $300-400 a piece (and sometimes as much as $450 when people are being irrational). Not sure what would happen if you were to flood the market with 30 at once. You may be able to get someone like Timothy Greenfield-Sanders, who shoots 11x14" and is likely to have the cash, to make a deal for the lot. If you sell them in the U.S., call them "filmholders." In the UK, OZ, and NZ, they call them "double darkslides." In the U.S. a "darkslide" is just the slide, not the whole filmholder.
     
  25. Studio935

    Studio935 Member

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    Darkslides

    Thanks for the info. I have just one of the filmholders but 80 of the darkslides and by that I mean the sliding board with the handle two knotches etc. I called them that because the invoice I found in one of the crates listed them that way. The Raptars I have 45 total and about I'd say 8 are scratched. If you want a couple send me your email and an address I'll send you a jpeg of the lot. My landlord is the one who technically owns all this stuff. He's just letting me pick through it for enough stuff to set up my own darkroom and keep a few of the lenses. I do have plans to build a camera once I get set up.
     
  26. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    That's interesting that they would keep so many darkslides on hand. They don't break that often. There isn't too much demand for darkslides, though replacement slides would be costly. Maybe Sandy King would be interested, since he manufactures ULF filmholders.

    Thanks for the offer. I'll look over the list, and see if there's anything I could really use.