Couple of quick Pyro PMK questions...

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by nick mulder, Jan 25, 2008.

  1. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

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    Hello,

    PMK:

    >> Is it ok to use wetting/drying agent in an end wash ? (it wont strip the stain?)

    Sometimes when I develop at night (HC110, D19, D76 etc..) I leave the negs in a tray of water until the morning when it is warmer and if there is a nice breeze I can keep an eye on them, is it ok to leave stained negs in water for this amount of time ?

    ...and just to make sure - its ok to switch lights on after the fix right ? i.e. > the post staining can be done in light ?

    thanks!
    ~Nick
     
  2. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Yes to using a wetting agent in the final wash.

    I recommend a No to the overnight soak.

    Yes to switching on the room lights after fixing.

    POST DEVELOPMENT STAINING is no longer recommended by Gordon Hutchings. It increases overall (general) stain, but does not increase image stain.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2008
  3. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

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    Thanks for the prompt reply - hmmm, interesting stuff this pyro - so I guess if the neg looks potentially too contrasty after a post fix inspection (still wet) with the loss of some shadow detail you could still choose to do a post stain ... I might dunk a sheet half way into the post bath and see what eventuates :wink:
     
  4. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    According to current theory you wouldn't like it any better, but once upon a time current theory was that garlic destroys magnetism of a lodestone, and that tomatos were deadly poison. Now we can have refrigerator magnets and tomato sauce on our pizza.
     
  5. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Nick, what you will see is the functional equivalent of an increase in the film's fog level. No improvement in shadow detail.
     
  6. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

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    Like what any better ?
     
  7. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

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    I said if anything I'd get a degradation in shadow detail :wink:
     
  8. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Not a good idea to eat any other parts (than the fruit) of a tomato plant. The stems and the leaves contain an alkaloid called Tomatine that interferes with
    cholinergic nerves and can cause some serious gastrointestinal distress.
     
  9. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

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    righto, so I've stepped upon some sort of bone of contention here ? A common Pyro faux-pas maybe ?

    enlightenment appreciated ...

    ~Nick
     
  10. PHOTOTONE

    PHOTOTONE Member

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    The modern thinking is that any post-fixing dipping of film back into the developer, while it might give you some overall (not image) stain increase, it does nothing good for the image. Gordon Hutchings has recanted his earlier instructions. Nobody did this before Hutchings...he worked out the method which he "thought" would be better, wrote the book, and then after extensive evaluation decided he was wrong.
     
  11. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

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    I'm just following the instructions in the photo formulary pack I got a few weeks back :wink:

    Can I snigger in the corner with the pyro 'in' folk now or are there more traps for young players ? :rolleyes:
     
  12. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    No worries Nick, I think Pat's just reminding me (and others) that folk wisdom is fallible.

    And I'm reminding Pat that there are often some facts underlying the folk wisdom.

    Dunno about any factual Garlic connections with magnetism though.

    I was working a ferrite core reluctance stability problem earlier today - Garlic wasn't mentioned.
     
  13. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

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    heh, reminds me of another thread that got so far as to how to measure focal lengths using the unit standard of 'women' - it started out in tortellini ...

    I am a user of a cinematography website and there are plenty of rules that get spurted out there by people who have read it on the net somewhere "so therefore its true" - I get tired of trying to make sense of it all and fly off on abstract tangents, that do have a core of truth somewhere but are otherwise incomprehensible to me and maybe one other user ... I smelled a hint of that here, and well, yeh no further comment required :wink:

    cheers for the info though - the original post was answered taco pronto

    nick
     
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  15. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    Well, the idea that an overall pyro stain will result from the alkaline afterbath seems to have prompted thr OP to observe that it might be the thing to do if the contrast appeared to be too high. In that respect, it would be like having a permanent yellow filter that would reduce the contrast when printing on VC paper. Contrary to the opinion of some, the proportional part of the yellow stain slightly increases VC contrast. So maybe it would not be such a bad thing to use the afterbath in such cases. You would still have the proportional part for blue and UV printing, albeit with longer print times.

    Sometimes the trouble with conventional wisdom is that it is too rigid to see all the possibilities, and instills such fear of violation that few are bold enough to test it. Lodestones were valued possessions. Who would risk eating garlic near one? The man who stood on his front porch and ate tomatos in public was expected to die a violent death forthwith. If he had, it would have been the result of indigestion, not poison. Anyway, we can use the subject to make fun if not good photos.
     
  16. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

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    I should mention I'm using pyro negs solely for Pt/Pd (UV) printing ...
     
  17. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    You are of course using an alkali fixer... tortellini, anyone?
     
  18. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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  19. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

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    yip ok I'll have some

    Its fixed for as long as an average song on my ipod takes in Ilford Rapid Fix (sans hardener)
     
  20. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    It is said by garlic eating helmsmen that acid adversly affects stain, and that a water stop and alkali fixer such as TF-4 is the thing to do.

    (That's what they say in the sniggering corner near the onion pot.)
     
  21. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/sds/sds.asp

    http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/msds/ilford/b&w/UNIVERSAL_RAP_FIX_.PDF

    Based on the Ilford MSDS information, it appears that Ilford HYPAM and Ilford Universal Rapid Fixer are the same fixer.

    Ilford Universal Rapid Fixer contains Ammonium Thiosulfate, Sodium Sulfite, Sodium Acetate, Boric Acid and Acetic Acid. The pH of the Ilford Rapid Fixer concentrate is listed as 5.1 (thus acidic)

    Recall: Acid pH is less than 6.5
    Neutral pH is 6.5 to 7.5
    Basic pH is greater than 7.5

    If you wish to increase the pH (i.e. make the fixer alkaline), just mix in Borax or Sodium Metaborate until the pH reaches the desired level (i.e. approx. neutral pH when the fixer stops fizzing - then add a few more grams of alkali). Otherwise, you would need a pH meter or pH indicator paper to accomplish this.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2008
  22. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    (No Vampires in the sniggering corner - I bet.)
     
  23. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

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  24. PHOTOTONE

    PHOTOTONE Member

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    I have great success developing with Wd2d pyro developer and fixing in Kodak Rapid Fix, just omitting the hardener (which comes in a separate bottle) from the fix mix.
     
  25. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    What grade of Borax? (dUcks and covers)
     
  26. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    Neither borax nor metaborate cause fizzing. They do not contain the carbonate ion.