CROSS PROCESS KODAK 400 CN - advice needed

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by photoworks68, Jul 14, 2011.

  1. photoworks68

    photoworks68 Member

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    Not sure if this is the right venue.

    I would like to know if anyone have tried to cross process kodak 400 CN chromatic film (process as E6). And if so, what are the requirements, i.e., does the film needs to be pushed. The film was exposed at 400 ISO.

    A decade ago, i use to have Ilford black and white chromatic film (I think it was the XP2 film) cross processed and it produced beautiful monochromatic slides. I remenbered pushing the film was involved, but can't exactly remember how much it was pushed.

    Any input would be much appreciated
     
  2. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    If memory serves me correct you will need to push (extend the development time to get great results) I managed a E6 labs in the late 80;s and this was common.
    You should do a ring around, normal, under , over,
    Then as the lab to clip test , Normal, push 1 , push 2 push 3 push 4.
    This will cost you a bit but you will get results.
    If you are processing yourself then I would use whole rolls with ring around experiments.
    Very lovely results can be had,,,,, each film has its own look so first off I would get the exposure dev correct .
    then move onto new films.

    have fun
     
  3. photoworks68

    photoworks68 Member

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    thanks, will try that out.
    :smile:
     
  4. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    But won't you still have the orange mask to deal with?


    I think the Ilford film was clear and designed to be a B&W negative. But my understanding, perhaps completely wrong, is that the Kodak film is designed to be printed on RA-4 paper, hence the base is not clear but has the orange.

    Or will that beach out in the E-6 beach?

    It should be obvious by now this isn't my strength! I'm looking for information.
     
  5. Diapositivo

    Diapositivo Member

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    I think the original poster means the film Kodak BW400CN, it's a panchromatic black & white film, a "chromogenic" film as they call them, to be normally developed in C-41 process to give an unmasked negative. The OP wants to cross-process it in E-6 to obtain monochromatic slides.
     
  6. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    The OP should end up with an Positive, although possibly very wierd positive.
    I do not think that the image will be a perfect BW positive, rather an interesting image.
    The colour negative films all had different looks, all depending on exposure and development time. Once someone nailed their balance the formula was pretty predictable.
    John Callow here on APUG has done as much cross processing of E6 film into negative as anyone on the planet. I am not sure how much of the neg to trans work he has done.
    but hopefully he will chime in... report this post and he is sure to see it as he is one of the main cahoonas here on APUG.
     
  7. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    "an unmasked negative"

    That's my question. I think the Kodak product is not unmasked like the Ilford product.

    I may be completely wrong, but my understanding is that the Kodak film gives a monochrome negative that is designed to print well to RA-4 color paper. While the Ilford product is designed to give a dye cloud based B&W negative for use with traditional monochrome paper.

    Does anyone know for sure?

    I hope the OP fills us in with the results, good or bad, so we'll know. The film might be pretty interesting to play with. It's almost always hanging in CVS when I buy my occasional overpriced TriX.

    MB
     
  8. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Like Ilford XP-2, Kodak BW400CN results in a "dye cloud based" negative. The negative is also monochromatic. The difference is that the negative includes the orange mask common to most C41 colour films. This makes it easier for simple one-hour photo labs to print monochrome images on RA4 colour paper.

    The mask tends to interfere with printing on to regular Black and White photo papers, but it is possible. Graded papers may work best.
     
  9. Diapositivo

    Diapositivo Member

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    Michael, I now understand what you meant, I thought you thought the film was colour because the OP defined it as 400CN chromatic film and I myself thought for a moment it was a colour film the post was about, only to think that a colour negative, cross-processed in E-6, should give colours of some kind, so I checked the film characteristics, got it was B&W, and thought you had made the same reasoning.
     
  10. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    So if it is cross processed in E6 chemicals will the beach remove the orange mask?
     
  11. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Yes , all C41 films I saw the base was clean and not orange.
     
  12. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    I never saw any of the Kodak C41 b&w films cross processed in E6, but the lab I used to work at sometimes cross processed Ilford XP2 in E6, and it took on a green tint somehow.
    That was with Kodak chemistry in a big Refrema.

    The guy processing the film wasn't too keen to do it, as he said he was worried about contamination. I haven't found any substantiated evidence that this would be the case, but when I cross process film using home kits, I always wait until the end of the kit capacity to run those rolls, just in case.

    I hope that helps a little bit.

    - Thomas
     
  13. photoworks68

    photoworks68 Member

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    Thanks for your replies. :smile:

    I assume that i need to shoot with a red filter as well.

    Was wondering as well if i can over expose the film, instead of having pushed (would be easier for me since i shoot in a studio).
    :whistling::whistling::whistling::whistling:
     
  14. photoworks68

    photoworks68 Member

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    I had some XP2 flm cross-processed a few times in the past ; the result was awsome, beautiful monochrome slides. I am thinking on renewing the experience again sometime.
    :smile:
     
  15. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    the push development is important,
     
  16. photoworks68

    photoworks68 Member

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    I finally got around to do more kodak 400cn film crossed processed and I really like the results. Will post some results soon.
     
  17. photoworks68

    photoworks68 Member

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    Here is a recent shot I took with 400 CN that was crossed process in E6. What do you guys think :

    Inverkip_Marina.jpg

    :smile:
     
  18. R Paul

    R Paul Member

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    that's nice---what speed did you shoot it at?
     
  19. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Inactive

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    How did you get it to be B&W?

    When I did that with some Kodak 400 CN film I got a very bad green color in the scan...

    Granted I did this about a year ago with a lot less skill and knowledge as now, but still...

    This is the straight scan...

    [​IMG]

    And this is after some finagling ...

    [​IMG]

    Obviously you scanned it as B&W or converted it after? But I had a hell of a time with the orange base...

    Or am I missing something?


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. photoworks68

    photoworks68 Member

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    I exposed the film at 100 ISO and I ask the lab to cross process and push the film to 1 stop and a half.

    Here is the raw scan from the slide :

    Inverkip_Marina_rawscan.jpg

    It was just a matter of applying a black and white layer after.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2013
  21. photoworks68

    photoworks68 Member

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    Sorry I did not write down the speed.And I cannot remember what speed I used.
    I really need to start writing down all that stuff.
     
  22. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Inactive

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    Me too, hmm interesting how different they are, but yours looks really good so congrats :smile:


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk