CURRENT info C-41 chemicals Or C-41 for Dummies????

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by stradibarrius, Sep 28, 2009.

  1. stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    I have read through countless threads about home C-41 process. I have read Kodak tech bulletins and then tried to find the chemicals as listed from the Kodak publication, only to find they are currently unavailable?

    Is it possible for some who is experienced to post a "C-41 for Dummies" thread????

    I process my own B&W and have been to Gary B's house and watched him process C-41. The process itself is not so much the question as is wading through the chemistry.
    I know there is a developer, bleach and fixer but Kodak has so many different versions of each.

    I know Tetnal has a "press kit" Developer, blix, stabilizer that looks more attractive all the time.

    I would prefer to separate the bleach and fix. From what I have read, you will get better results.

    So to summarize, to Process C-41 color negative film at home in a small hand held tank what chemicals do I need? Are they currently available in the US?

    If I can ask, please be specific about the chemicals needed.
    Developer???? developer/replenisher???? both????
    Which bleach?
    Which fixer?

    I am sorry for being such a "dummy"...
     
  2. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Go here: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/busi...s/flexicolor1.jhtml?pq-path=12085/12319/12549

    You will see that for our purposes we should use the KODAK FLEXICOLOR SM Tank Developer for our small sink line and rotary processes. Further information is here:

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/busi...cts/chemicals/flexicolor2.jhtml?pq-path=12550

    with a full process manual.


    I do not suggest the powdered Tetenal "press kit" as they used (when I bought one) solid sodium thiosulfate and sodium ferric EDTA which are not strong enough to blix (or even bleach) modern day color films.

    You might consider calling Kodak's hot line and asking them for what product to order.

    They did make a product for small tanks that did not need a starter. It was sold in 1 and 5 gallon kits.

    PE
     
  3. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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  4. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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  5. jglass

    jglass Subscriber

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    I was doing the same research myself last night. I found one place that looked promising, but I'll have to post them tonight. Most of the threads, as you say, are inconclusive on where to get the chems, but I was able to put together a fairly definitive list of WHAT is needed.

    @PE, as I'm sure you know, those chems can only be bought at the B&H store, no shipping, but thanks for identifying the part #.
     
  6. naugastyle

    naugastyle Member

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    I bought the press kit because I wanted small amounts to start with. Still haven't started, since I read here the chems don't last long I wanted to do all my test rolls at once. I suppose if the blix is not strong enough, these won't be rolls that matter greatly to me anyway.

    Can the liquid concentrates be diluted for each roll you develop rather than mixed all beforehand? Or does that not help extend the shelf life at all?

    Is there any reason photo-flo can't be used? I assume it should be fine but I don't know.
     
  7. stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    Here is the Kodak chemical list I have assembled for someone here to tell me if these are correct.
    Flexicolor SM developer Kodak #1756337
    Flexicolor Bleach III kodak # 8940801
    Flexicolor Fixer/replenisher # 1983550
    Flexicolor Stablizer 8729956
     
  8. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    That site was the only one that I found the small kit mentioned. I am fully aware of their restrictions, but that part # can be ordered via local photo stores.

    I have posted a list of chemistry here before with Kodak ID #s but I saw that they were pretty much obsolete.

    The list in the post above appears current.

    PE
     
  9. hrst

    hrst Member

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    Fuji has a 5 liter kit that contains everything for small-tank processing: developer, bleach, fix and stabilizer. See: http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/fuji-hunt-c41-x-press-kit-5l-680-p.asp .

    Tetenal's current liquid C-41 kits have worked for me, but they use a blix (instead of separate bleach and fix) and PE says it's a no-no, and I believe it, having seen other faulty products from Tetenal also. I made one side-to-side comparison with Portra 160VC (Tetenal blix worked 100% ok) but as a slower speed film it may be easier to blix, so the blix may not work so well with all films.

    Development is easy even for a newbie if you have done some BW before. Just use your usual tank but place it in a water bath of 100F/38C with the chemicals. If the water temperature drops, add some hot water. Wait until the chemicals are at correct temperature and then just process the films following the directions for the chemicals. Couldn't be much easier.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2009
  10. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The Tetenal liquid kit is probably better than the all powder Press Kit that they make. The all powder version uses sodium salts, as I said, in the blix and therfore would probably be marginal or poor. Since blixing or bleaching and fixing go to completion, you might eventually get it to "time out" by using long immersion times in these solutions.

    PE
     
  11. glbeas

    glbeas Member

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    You should pay a visit to Photo Barn. It's on your side of town and they carry Flexicolor and the fix and bleach. At least they did last I was there.
     
  12. stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    Freestyle has an Arista liquid C-41 kit that uses a 3 part liquid blix. Has anyone evr tried the Arista kit?
    I also called "Photographer's Formulary" today and they are about to release a C-41 kit.
     
  13. jglass

    jglass Subscriber

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    Stradibarrius:
    That list you posted above looks interesting. Two questions for you or PE or other experts:

    Does the SM developer you listed include replenisher and starter or is that unecessary with that item? I had understood that the usual developer required mixing starter into replenisher for one shot use. Not correct?

    Does the bleach III listed include parts A and B or is that unecessary with that item? I understood that bleach could be used without starter but needed parts A & B. Not correct?

    This is the thread I had gotten that info from: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/60117-kodak-flexicolor-c-41-chemistry.html

    Here is a potential source for some of this stuff, but they do not appear to have each the items you listed:
    http://www.pakor.com/Category/C41_Chemistry.cfm

    Here is another thread on getting Bleach III, but it refers to Pakor, above.
    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/54285-bleach-iii-canned.html

    Let's figure out who sells this stuff in the US once and for all. (if anyone) The Fujihunt kit available from some UK suppliers does not seem to be available in the US

    Have Freestyle, B&H or Adorama or Calumet been known to order such chemicals for small buyers?

    Thanks all.
     
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  15. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    All I can say is that Bleach III does not need replensiher nor does it come in 2 parts. That refers to my version. It may have changed.

    Developer-Replensiher needs a starter. Developer does not for C-41.

    PE
     
  16. Tom Taylor

    Tom Taylor Member

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    Not a trivial quesgtion since Kodak likes to play a shell game with the product. Here's what I ise:

    1. Kodak Flexicolor developer replenisher[/I] in the 19 liter/5 gallon kit. Kodak Cat. No. 191 9042. I purchase it from Calumet and it cost $33.99. You will need a starter and it cost about $10 for a 946mL bottle. It only take 14mL of starter to make a liter of replenisher. I use the developer one shot.

    2. Kodak repackaged their one shot Flexicolor bleach III which was available by the gallon for $28.08 at my local camera store and is now marketing it as FlexicolorSM tank bleach in a 2.7 liter container for $38.95 at my local store (Cat. No. 882-4690). However you can still purchase Flexicolor III product in a 12.5 gallon kit (You need Part A and Part B and a starter) for about $300.00.

    3. Kodak Flexicolor fixer and replenisher to make 19 liters/5 gallons. Kodak Cat. No. 169-3837. I last purchased this from Adorama for $20 to $25.

    4. Kodak Flexicolor Final rinse and replenisher is available in 45mL bottles to make 5 liters (9mL/liter) and cost about $6.00

    Remember, with exception of the developer you can reuse the bleach, fix, and replenisher to process the maximum number of rolls/sheets for a given volume of chemisgtry. Check the Kodak pubs. for capacities.
     
  17. Photo Engineer

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    Firstoff, remember that Kodak no longer makes the chemistry. Champion bought this division from EK.

    Second, replenisher keeps forever. So, there is no waste. The same is true for the Bleach III and almost the same for the fix.

    PE
     
  18. PeteZ8

    PeteZ8 Member

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    Interesting thread, and interesting info on the Tentenol kits not being good for "newer" films. I only tried color once and it was with one of those kits on some old (10-15 years) film, a mixture of Kodak and Polaroid C-41 35mm. Oddly, when doing two rolls at once, I had some experience where one roll would be good and the other virtually blank. I'm starting to wonder if the "weak" chemistry in the kit had something to do with it, and if I would have had different results from Kodak chemistry.
     
  19. hka

    hka Member

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    What are the consequences when I soup the film for to long in the bleach?
     
  20. stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    Can you define "starter" and "replenisher" in the context of developer? Is there a developer that is ready to use once it is mixed to the proper dilution? I was under the impression that the kodak flexicolor developer #1756337 was a 3 part, one shot product????
    One thing that is very confusing about all of this is the definition of the different types of developers that can be used to process the C-41 film.
    If you could list and explain the different developers I think it would be very helpful....
    I know I have asked so many questions but I really appreciate your help and knowledge!!! I think that this thread is helping several other people as well????
     
  21. jglass

    jglass Subscriber

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    Yes, it's helping me a lot!!.


    I STILL THINK THIS SHOULD BE A STICKY ON THIS FORUM! or maybe a FAQ or something. Even if it changes from time to time, it would give people a place to start.

    Thanks.
     
  22. jglass

    jglass Subscriber

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    More info: Here's a supplier that carries Sm Tank Developer, although in multi-unit batch, with hazardous fee:
    http://www.southpointphoto.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=905#details

    Here it is from a place in Rochester:
    http://www.pdisupply.com/ProductDet...2&CategoryID=9&CFID=27248868&CFTOKEN=78870105

    Another:

    http://www.pfsny.com/M/Kodak/Kodak-Chemistry/Kodak-SM-Chemistry_.html

    Another at $61.02 in TEXAS! like me:
    http://www.dillostore.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=121756337

    HOWEVER, they say the shipping from Houston to Austin (where I am) is $90.00 minimum cause it has to go on a truck. BUT a local photo lab buys from them and he said the lab might tack my order onto theirs for a minimal fee. Looks like I'll try that to avoid shipping. This stuff is in a new box labelled POISON so they won't air ship it.
     
  23. hrst

    hrst Member

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    I agree with jglass. Some good threads about C-41, E-6 and RA-4 chemicals as stickies would be nice. These are the basic color stuff and asked so often.
     
  24. jglass

    jglass Subscriber

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    Well my local photo store/lab will order the chemistry for me and include it in their larger order without shipping. But the minimum quantities are fairly large.
    Here are prices and quantities:

    1766337 SM Dev 2L $12.95, min order qty 6 = $77.70
    8824690 SM Bleach 2.7L $37.50, min 2 = $75
    8462681 SM Fixer 3.9L $37.50, min 2 = $75
    1925254 SM Final Rinse 1.5L $2.50, min 12 = $31

    Total is $257.70

    Now I need to find out how much film that will develop and/or find a partner that will go in on this order with me in Austin/San Antonio.

    Anyone have the figures for amount of developer per roll with this SM Tank developer?

    Anyone know anyone in Austin/San Antonio that might be interested? I'll post this on the local interest forum.

    Stradibarrius, you might try this same route, asking a local pro lab to tack your order onto a regular order of theirs.
     
  25. Tom Taylor

    Tom Taylor Member

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    The Kodak Pubs specify 330mL of chemistry per sheet of 8x10 or roll of film. You can reuse the bleach, fix and stablizer once (without replenishment) but discard the developer. Check the Kodak Pubs for capacities.
     
  26. stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    I spoke to a really nice lady at Diversified and she said they do not have any small quanities. She made the suggestion that the local lab would probably be glad to include some in their order because they have a hard times having an d order that meets the min. size.