D-23 question

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by ronlamarsh, Apr 3, 2008.

  1. ronlamarsh

    ronlamarsh Member

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    I have read many opinions about the classic D-23 formula acting as a silver solvent due to the amount of sodium sulfite in it. According to Barry Thornton reducing the sulfite to 80gr/litre eliminates the solvent action.
    The question: can one use the classic formula for D-23 but dilute 1:1 and achieve the same results or is it a question of ratios i.e. sulfite to metol?
    I routinely use D-23 at 1:1 with great results. thanks
     
  2. PhotoJim

    PhotoJim Member

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    Diluting it 1:1 or 1:3 obviously reduces the solvent action.

    Whether reducing the sulfite and keeping the metol the same will change the behaviour in some desirable way versus diluting it 1:1 with the published formula is an exercise for you. I suspect it will be different in some way.
     
  3. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

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    Cutting the sulfite to 80g/liter doesn't eliminate the solvent action, but merely reduces it. The cutoff point is about 50g/liter. Diluting the stock 1+1 will get you to the point of 50g/liter as the stock solution calls for 100g/liter.

    In addition, 1+1 or greater give a compensating effect which is often desirable.

    Not sure that this will help. I have a feeling I'm telling you something you already know.
     
  4. ronlamarsh

    ronlamarsh Member

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    D-23

    Thanks all, I may have already known it but I tend to think too much which makes for questions of all sorts. I regularly use a 1:1 dilution and often times modifiy this by developing in straight D-23 for the first 2 miins then dilute to 1:1 for the remainder of my standard developing time. This seems to give excellent results with good low and midtone contrast while keeping the highlights under control. My images routinely run a 6 to 8 stop range.
     
  5. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    While you are comparing, try substitutung sodium ascorbate in place of sodium sulfite. Add a little borax to keep pH the same for both.
     
  6. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

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    That's the beauty of D-23! It's so simple that you can change it to anything you like. However, I was once politely informed that once you change it, it isn't d-23 anymore.
     
  7. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    My D-23 formula is 8-80, metol-sulfite. I've used
    it on a few rolls of Acros at 1:7 and like the results.
    My gray card tests with densitometer determined
    densities show I'm making ISO 100. Looks like
    good highlight control.

    One roll of 120; 500ml at 1:7: developer in then
    3 inversions, then 3 at 1 minute and 3 at 2 minute
    intervals. One-shot, 16 minutes. Dan
     
  8. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    Don't get me wrong. I used to like it a lot. Every so often I try it again and think "That was really pretty good." The most expensive, and for, hardest to get is the sulfite, so I save my sulfite for jobs I haven't found a substitute for at the local pharmacy or grocery.
     
  9. Saganich

    Saganich Subscriber

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    I've been replenishing my D23 with the balanced alkali replenisher from the cookbook rather then using it one-shot, so much better. I mix 1 liter of D23 and 1 liter of replenisher. I went through nearly 40 rolls without any issue. There was so much silver in the liter bottle I was suspicious it might do something to the film so i mixed up some fresh. Recently I've been developing 2/3 time straight and 1/3 time in a 1:3 dilution, or 1/3 in an 8 grams/liter borax solution. I'll post some examples ASAP.

    I have a question about replenishing the 1:3 D23 dilution. Should I be using a 1:3 replenisher dilution or just less replenisher
     
  10. Anscojohn

    Anscojohn Subscriber

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    You should use only straight DK-25R; and only replenish used straight D23.

    John, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA
     
  11. analogfotog

    analogfotog Member

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    I use D-23, usually with a static (no agitation) 3-minute post-developer bath of a 1% Sodium Metaborate solution (aka Kodalk or Kodak Balanced Alkali), and I replenish with DK-25R. My 4.2-litre jug of developer had been on the go for over two years, and my results are consistent. The one problem is that a sludge will gradually accumulate at the bottom of the jug. It doesn't seem to cause any problems, even though when I replenish, I add the replenisher to the jug of developer, return the used developer to the bottle until it fills it to the very top, and discard the rest, usually about 50-100 mL. I then cap the bottle, and invert it four or five times to mix the replenisher. This causes a "snow storm" of black powder inside the bottle, but it settles out fairly quickly.

    Last weekend I filtered out the sludge, using the same filters I use for making my morning coffee, which I have done a couple of times over the past two years. The crud that accumulates at the bottom is not silver, as far as I know. I'm not a chemist, and would enjoy hearing from a chemist/chemical engineer/scientist as to what that stuff is. I recall having read somewhere that it is probably a sulfite or a sulfite/calcium sludge. I live in an area with very hard water, so that seems likely.
     
  12. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    The problem is, the man has been using and replenishing 1:3 D-23, apparently with good results. This is one of those "everybody knows" things, like the fact that tomatos are deadly poison, and garlic destroys the power of permanent magnets.:tongue:

    The replenisher amount and strength should be based on the amount of film developed, not on the strength of the original solution IMHO. Or maybe it's not so H.
     
  13. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Onions are bad for permanent magnets as well - - the helmsman was traditionally forbidden to eat either garlic or onions.
     
  14. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    You see? That proves it!