D-76 stock vs. 1:1

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by e_joyner, Mar 7, 2004.

  1. e_joyner

    e_joyner Member

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    Are there any depreciable differences in using stock solution of d76 vs. diluted 1:1? How would it affect grain, sharpness, and shadow detail; which would give the best in these aspects?

    Thanks in advance for the feedback.

    ~edye
     
  2. mobtown_4x5

    mobtown_4x5 Member

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    I am bumping this post up because it seems to have gotten passed up, and I have wondered about this myself.

    Also, expanding on the question, since I'm here(I hope you don't mind me adding onto your post :whistle: )...

    ...In addition to D-76 dilutions, what other developer dilutions or ingredients are associated with effects such as acu-whatsit, sharpness, grain, tonality, etc? For example, all the developers in my camera store(I looked at D-76, DK-50, Acufine, FG-7, HC-110, Perceptol, Sprint, Lauder, Rodinal and others) list some form of (I'm going from memory here so give me a break on the spelling) hydroquinone and sodium sulfate. Can these products really be that much different with the same 2 basic ingredients?, Or is it the formula and other additives that make the difference(s)? Or is dilution mostly the factor. Can anyone give some info on what to expect from some of the commercially available developers and dilutions thereof? Or what ingredients to look for for a specific result?

    Matt
     
  3. Jorge Oliveira

    Jorge Oliveira Member

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  4. mobtown_4x5

    mobtown_4x5 Member

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    OK, point taken- that was a lot of questions there (some must have answers though)..

    -Anyway i just popped on because this post was sliding down the page and no one had answered the poster's original question about D-76...

    ...anyone...

    .....Bueller...

    .......Bueller........

    .......... :Zzz: ...........
     
  5. Aggie

    Aggie Member

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    bigger grain in straight
     
  6. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    It is sulfite not sulfate - big difference, chemically. Only a subgroup of the developers listed use hydroquinone.
     
  7. sanking

    sanking Member

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    You should see the following difference with D76 1:1 as compared to D76 straight.

    1. Larger grain.

    2. More sharpness.

    3. Longer developing times.

    Assuming you develop to the same CI there should be no difference in shadow detail.

    Sandy King
     
  8. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Aggie: Undiluted D-76 contains a high concentration of sodium sulfite which is a silver solvent. Thus film developed in undiluted D-76 should show slightly finer grain. Freshly mixed D-76 shows a higher level of activity than aged D-76.

    "D-76 may be used undiluted, but there is no advantage in doing so. The negatives, while slightly finer grained, do not exhibit the same degree of sharpness or tonal scale."

    See: http://www.jackspcs.com/d76.htm
     
  9. e_joyner

    e_joyner Member

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    Thank you Matt, for keeping this 'alive', and to all for the info. I trolled through Kodak's tech pubs, and found the info that 1:1 will increase sharpness and grain.

    This is the kind of info, as a 'newbie' struggling to understand, is really helpful.

    ~edye
     
  10. Aggie

    Aggie Member

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    I knew if I was right no one would comment. But if I am wrong, there are many here that hurry to point it out fast. It at least got the thread answered. Viking logic or is it a mothers logic when working with her kids?
     
  11. mobtown_4x5

    mobtown_4x5 Member

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    I dunno Aggie, but I'm real glad this got rolling 'cause it turns out that the The Jack's Photo Chemistry site from the link that Tom posted has a wealth of precisely the information I was after with my question: namely, various developer ingredients and thier comparative properties.

    Thanks Tom!
     
  12. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Glad I could help, mobtown!
     
  13. Andre R. de Avillez

    Andre R. de Avillez Member

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    I have been told (but never tested to prove it) that diluted D-76 will give more shadow detail than a straight shot, since the chemistry working on the highlights would get spent faster than the chemistry along the shadow (less silver to react). Of course, this would only be true until the film is agitated. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge as it relates to this?

    And add another question, how hard is it to mix the stuff (i've been using the college's stuff up to now)? Does anyone have any preference of kodak's stuff vs. photogs formulary's? what about the 2 bath version?

    sorry if this is going on a tangent
     
  14. Dean Williams

    Dean Williams Member

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    "how hard is it to mix the stuff"

    It's easy to mix. Just four ingredients:
    Metol
    Sodium sulfite
    Hydroquinone
    Borax

    D76H works the same as far as I can tell and you just leave out the Hydroquinone and adjust the Metol and Borax. Thing is, unless you want to buy Sodium sulfite in large quantities (20-50 lbs.) it is about as cheap to buy the Kodak stuff. It takes nearly a pound of SS per gallon of D76 and SS costs about $5.00 lb in smaller quantities. If you want the formula, try the Unblinking Eye site.

    Dean
     
  15. VJ Bell

    VJ Bell Member

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    :confused: I have read an article that suggested a finer grain for T Max when developed in perceptol. Does anybody agree with this , and if so, i need some times to develop T-Max 100, 400, 3200.
    thank you.
     
  16. fhovie

    fhovie Subscriber

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    For me, the definitive work on developer components and developer operation is in a book called "The film developers Cookbook" Anchell - i always keep it at arms length. It explains all the different kinds of chemistries, what they do and why and gives formulas for practically anything. As good as the info is from this group - you can't do much better than that book to build a foundation of knowledge on which to add the subtleties gained here. PMK is a great developer - I have used it for years - I wouldn't recommend it for cute little film or MF that will get enlarged past 11x14" I have just begun to use Pyrocat HD = the grain is much smaller and there is less general stain. It is still not Microdol for the small formats. I have settled on 4 developers for my use:

    120 and LF get Pyrocat HD and get used based on what I will print on and how much contrast expansion or contraction I need.

    35mm and 120 that will get enlarged past 8x10 I use Microdol

    Special films or anything push processed go into D76

    For unknown exposure situations - i.e. antique cameras and guessing about odd varied lighting go into a split D23 soup that will just about make anything look good.

    80% is pyro
     
  17. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Had your eyesight checked lately? That sure sounds like presbyopia to me :blink:
     
  18. fhovie

    fhovie Subscriber

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    That too Ole!
     
  19. happysnapper

    happysnapper Member

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    Presbyopia.... is that a new religion?
     
  20. fhovie

    fhovie Subscriber

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    A visual condition which becomes apparent especially in middle age and in which loss of elasticity of the lens of the eye causes defective accommodation and inability to focus sharply for near vision. Most common in photographers who mix their own chemistry after lugging 47lbs of camera around.
     
  21. harveyje

    harveyje Subscriber

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    It's also the reason we have bifocals, trifocals, and "progressive" eyeglasses. It is the reason that some photographers find an increasing need for and reliance on using a loupe to focus the ground glass image (just kidding, but at least partly true). I personally use progressive glasses and any other means of focussing and clariying that I can find.

    The more dilute form of the developer is more likely to slow down in the highlights and allow continued development of the shadow areas as I understand it. I used to use dilute Rodinal of Neofin Blau for this effect.