D23 1+3 Rotary Development LF film

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Shawn Dougherty, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    I have been experimenting with D23 at 1+3 and rotary development in home made BTZS style tubes, rolling them slowly and gently in a tub of water.

    I intend this thread to be a resource for Times, Temperatures and experiences doing the same.

    I am finishing off my last package of Kodak Tmax 400 (which I will post about in this thread). After that film is gone I plan to use HP5+ (which I'm already using in 120 roll film). However, I acquired 175 sheets of J&C Pro 100 4x5 at an incredibly good price so will be using that up first. I will post my experiences with HP5+ and JCPro 100 when I have reasonable experience with them in D23 1+3. (I have mostly used those films with Pyrocat HD at this point)
     
  2. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    D23 1+3, Kodak Tmax 400 (TMY2) at ISO 250. Temperatures have started at 72° and finished at about 70°.
    So far my times are looking like this:

    N+1 = 20 minutes
    N = 17 minutes
    N-1 = 14.5 minutes

    Though I rate the film at ISO 250 I tend to error on the side of more exposure. These times/temps are for contact printing on VC paper with a target contrast grade of 3.5.

    I have yet to test beyond N-1 or N+1. I will add those experiences if I come across any such scenes before running out of this emulsion.
    Thus far I have been very happy with my results and the prints have come relatively easily, simple burning and dodging and a few prints have been made with only one filter grade (which is a little unusual for me).

    *I should add that I am using 25ml of D23 plus 75ml of distilled water for a total of 100ml per sheet of 4x5. I am also using a pre-soak of about 2 minutes.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2013
  3. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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  4. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    Two things to add to my Tmax 400 info I supplied in post #2. I have bumped some times and added an N+2 time so....

    Tmax 400 @ 250 - 70°f
    N+2 = 24 minutes (and I would not be afraid to go to 25 or 26 minutes...)
    N+1 = 21 minutes
    N = 17 minutes
    N-1 = 14.5 minutes

    Also, I've got 30 sheets of Tmax400 left and then will be moving on to my stash of HP5+, which I'm already using with D23 1+3 in 120 roll film, though not with continuous agitation.

    I'm wondering if anyone has any starting point times for D23 1+3 and HP5+ with ROTARY DEVELOPMENT (BTZS or Jobo)? Perceptol 1+3 or Microdol X 1+3 would be good to know as those should be close. So far I have only found one time on the Ilford Perceptol PDF for 1+3...

    Thanks!
    Shawn
     
  5. JW PHOTO

    JW PHOTO Subscriber

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    Shawn,
    You touched on something I'm a little interested in and that's HP5+ in D-23 1:3/Perceptol 1:3. I'm in the process of buying HP5+, FP4+ and PanF + in 120. I've been doing some playing around with other films and now think it's time to settle down and get back to some serious stuff. I've used PanF and PanF+ in Perceptol 1:3 in the past and think it is the best combo I have used for PanF film, but I've never developed or can't remember developing HP5/HP5+ in Perceptol 1:3. My question to you is, how well do you like the results from HP5+ in D-23 1:3 and how is the contrast range?
     
  6. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    So far I have only developed HP5+ in D23 1+3 using 120 roll film (stainless tank reals / agitation once a minute). I have not done enough or made enough prints to make informed comments. I will say that things look quite promising, not much different than what I have experienced with D23 1+3 and Tmax400, which I love.

    I will certainly report back with my findings once I have more experience using this combo.
     
  7. JW PHOTO

    JW PHOTO Subscriber

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    I'll be doing the (stainless tank reals / agitation once a minute) routine also. TMY2 is one great film, but I want to stick with the older "conventional type" emulsions for a while and see where that leads me. I've just ran a few rolls of film through some Pyrocat-MC and I'm impressed. I think I could be happy with that and Perceptol/D-23. Of course there's always that bottle of Rodinal on the back shelf too. When I was taking an advanced/large format college course I did develop some sheets in D-23 1:1 and thought they were as good as, if not better than, the HC110 dil.B that the instructor recommended. That was the last time I used D-23 and that was around 1980 or so.
     
  8. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    Ilford HP5+ 4x5 film exposed at ISO 200 developed in D23 1+3 with homemade BTZS style tubes - ROTARY AGITATION.

    This is early information, and I feel that I slightly overexposed my film (even for me) in south Florida after not being used to sunshine this long, cold, dark winter.... :cool:

    But so far it's looking like my times at 70 degrees with the above combo appear to be...
    N = 25 minutes
    N+1 = 30 minutes

    After I get through my Everglades / Big Cypress negatives I will do another film speed test and work to double check these times with any adjustments I might make. I will also post any N- information I work out.

    It's awfully quite in here, I guess I'm the only one on APUG using D23 1+3 with rotary development... what's scaring everyone off? The long development times? Or is D23 too complicated to mix? :tongue:

    I will say the grain is there but not bad, less grain than Rodinal but just as sharp under an 8x loupe (I realize how subjective that is...).
     
  9. jerrybro

    jerrybro Subscriber

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    You are not alone.
     
  10. baachitraka

    baachitraka Subscriber

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    May I know your times for 120 in Stainless steel tanks.
     
  11. JW PHOTO

    JW PHOTO Subscriber

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    Shawn,
    I've been running some HP5+ 120 film in Perceptol 1:2 and also Claytons F76+ to get a "feel" as to which I like. I've just started testing so I have a few more rolls to run, but so far I don't see a ton of difference between the two as far as grain goes. I really like Perceptol 1:3 with Fuji Acros and PanF+, but the verdict is still out on HP5+. I give a slight edge to F76+ for better shadow detail, but sharpness is to close to call. I would imagine D23 1:3 would be close to Perceptol 1:3 with Hp5+. I'll know more in a week or two, but it sure seems a tossup right now. JW
     
  12. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    Thanks, Jerry! :D Any thoughts or insights?

    Surprisingly, to me anyway, my N time for HP5+ in 120 using stainless and agitation every minute is around 25 minutes. I say surprisingly because that's about the same time I'm getting with sheet film and continuous agitation in BTZS style tubes. I am using a presoak with both which MAY play a roll in the similarity of those times...


    I would think HP5+ in Perceptol would indeed be close. I've been surprised by the SPEED I'm getting compared to Rodinal. It seems to be about the same as I was getting with Pyrocat HD... Since I'm loving the results and it's so simple to mix I really can't see myself using another developer again... I hope. :smile:
     
  13. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    So this is slightly off my narrow topic but oh well...

    I exposed two negatives of the same scene that would be very easy to recreate if necessary... (typical N scene) and tried HP5+ at 1+1. I ran the first for 12 minutes, the second for 14 minutes. I have yet to make prints but the 14 minute neg looks damn good...

    14 minutes rolling tubes around sure beats 25 minutes of rolling tubes around... we'll see where this leads me. :whistling:
     
  14. jerrybro

    jerrybro Subscriber

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    When I was calibrating a few years ago I found that I could get identical curves using 1:1 and 1:3 dilutions on TMY when the times were adjusted to match Zone 8. Since I use the Jobo, and I like to run it at 25C, I use 1:3 to stretch the times out. When I look back on my negs I really can't tell which ones were done on Xtol, TMaxRS, or D23. Now this is mostly on 120 and 4x5.

    I think what I like most about D23 is that I can mix up just what I need when I need it so it is always fresh. I suffered through some 1 liter Xtol failures back in the day, and I did have 1 batch that worked fine on Saturday but was dead on Sunday, I hear those issues are now history. I also do not have to worry about it being discontinued because it was no longer profitable, or the formula changing for some odd reason.

    I've heard it said that D23 is a low contrast developer and disagree. It will make a neg so dense as to be unusable. What it does do is want a more exposed negative. When I was doing a lot of large format Zone stuff I had to rate TMY at 160, but, that is as much due to the way I meter as the way the developer works.
     
  15. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    Thanks for the insights, Jerry, I appreciate them. 25c is pretty hot, I work at 70f degrees since I'm just spinning tubes in water and wanted to try shortening the times up. Once I have some prints under my belting using 1+1 I will be able to make better comparisons with 1+3. Just looking at negatives on the light table I can't see much of a difference except SLIGHTLY tighter/sharper grain in the 1+3 negatives, which doesn't really matter much to me.

    D23 may be a bit softer working than some developers but as you say, as long as you give it enough time you can overdevelop a negative as with anything else. As far as speed, I'm coming off a long relationship with Rodinal, and tend to expose generously so I haven't noticed it being slow. I've been rating TMY2 at 200 which is basically the same as you.

    Thanks again for you input.
     
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