Deep multi-Tanks, Can't avoid over exposure on the bottom...

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by dwdmguy, May 11, 2009.

  1. dwdmguy

    dwdmguy Member

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    Evening all.

    I'm having the same issue with my patterson 4 tank. I'm filling as fast as I can but it seems the bottom reel is still getting a bit overexposed more then the top reel.

    Is there any tips/tricks that could help? I've searched but came by nothing.
    Thank you.
    Tom
     
  2. Anscojohn

    Anscojohn Subscriber

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    ******
    Do you mean overdeveloped?
     
  3. trexx

    trexx Member

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    Have the loaded reals in one tank and the developer in another. Turn the lights off, transfer the reals to the filled tank, lid up and then turn the lights on.
     
  4. Bob-D659

    Bob-D659 Member

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    Fill it with developer first and then put the film in.
     
  5. KenS

    KenS Member

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    Tom,

    Would you be willing to try filling the tank with the developer and gently dropping or inserting inserting the loaded reels into the tank, putting the top back on and giving it its initial agitation before turning the darkroom light back on?

    You will probably find that you will get more even development between the top and the bottom reels.

    Ken

    Ken
     
  6. BetterSense

    BetterSense Member

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    Just wondering, how much volume do 4 SS reels full of film take up, compared to 4 empty reels? Getting the liquid level right would seem a bit tricky that way.
     
  7. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    how exactly are you processing your film ?

    are you talking about DEEP tanks or SMALL tanks ??
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2009
  8. Thomas Wilson

    Thomas Wilson Member

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    That's an interesting question. Are you sure that the bottom reel is being over developed? If you invert your tank when dumping the developer, then the top reel should get the same over-development as the bottom reel, only at the end of the process, not the beginning.

    You might consider filling your tank before you load the reels. Stack the reels on the cylinder as normal, and then plop them in the tank just before you turn on the lights. If the top reel then becomes over-developed because of its longer immersion during draining, your hypothesis is correct.
     
  9. fschifano

    fschifano Member

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    I have a similar tank, and I fill and drain it normally. I don't have any problems like you describe. You can fill the tank first, then drop the reels in. That works, but it's too easy to knock something over in the dark. It can be messy, and it can ruin your work. There's a better solution; and it is one that is very easy to implement. Use a funnel stuck into the fill hole and use a slower working developer. The funnel will allow you to pour the developer quickly without spillage. If you aim for a total development time of no less than 7 minutes, preferably around 10 minutes, then the drain and fill times become but a very small percentage of the total development time, and there won't be any practical difference in development. Don't worry about the extra volume displaced by a loaded vs. empty reels. It's only a few milliliters per reel. If you have enough volume to cover 4 empty reels, then there's enough to cover 4 loaded ones without overloading the tank.
     
  10. Removed Account

    Removed Account Member

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    You can also try higher developer dilutions to achieve longer developing times; this will reduce the effect that small deviations have, relative to the total developing time.
     
  11. dwdmguy

    dwdmguy Member

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    Hi guys and thank you for taking the time.
    I can't fill a tank first, wish I could. Right now I work out of a dark bag so that could be a issue....
    Well Frank, that funnel idea is worth a shot.

    I'm confused as I pour in and pour out my chems rather quickly so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I will also try to use a weaker developer.
    Thank you again everyone for your guidnce.
    Tom
     
  12. Doremus Scudder

    Doremus Scudder Member

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    Presoak the film. This will slow the absorption of developer a bit.

    Tip the tank a bit when pouring in the developer and rotate it slightly as you pour. This will speed up the pouring process a bit and get more film into the developer faster.

    Use more dilute devloper and longer developing times to make the partial exposure to developer a smaller fraction of the total developing time.

    Make sure you have the proper amount of developer for the tank and reel combination you are using (i.e., that you are filling the tank enough to cover the top of the film when not agitating). This should be a no-brainer, but it is surprising how often the mistake is made.

    Re-examine your agitation technique. Maybe it is at fault, not the filling/draining.

    If all else fails, load the film on the reels upside-down... :smile: (Seriously though, maybe it is a camera/exposure issue...)

    Best,

    Doremus Scudder
    www.DoremusScudder.com
     
  13. dwdmguy

    dwdmguy Member

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    Thank you Doremus.
    I'm starting to think that NOT measuring my developer is a problem. I've been filling to the top thus perhaps maybe my agitating is not working?
     
  14. Venchka

    Venchka Member

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    Which size tank are you using? I have the System 4 tank that holds 2 35mm or 1 120 reel. I use 800ml of Xtol 1:3. Good coverage over the reel and enough empty space for good flow of developer when I invert. I also use the plastic thingie and spin the reels back and forth in place of inverting two or three times in the course of my 10-12 minute developing sequence. I get even development.
     
  15. dwdmguy

    dwdmguy Member

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    Ven, I use the larger 3 35mm tank.......
    Thank you
     
  16. MartinP

    MartinP Member

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    For three 35mm reels that volume would be 290ml per reel, so 870ml total. The recommendation is written on the bottom of the tank for Paterson tanks and I am puzzled as to a reason to ignore it ? In any case, there would be no need to fill above the start of the 'funnel' part of the tank when filling it visually rather than by volume. The airspace is important in getting enough movement of the liquids during agitation.

    For short times, putting the reels into a tank containing developer (rather than putting the developer into a tank full of reels) is a reasonable solution (pun intended). As mentioned by lots of people, when there is no available darkroom the only practical alternative might be to dilute the developer to get a longer time, or even change developer. I suppose the 'ultimate' step is leave the film standing still in diluted Rodinal for ninety minutes, but maybe that's a bit extreme !!
     
  17. dwdmguy

    dwdmguy Member

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    Again, thank you ALL. I'm just going to take the offer of my cousin and take his Jobo ATL-2300 for a few bucks. Looks like I can store up on the exposed films, b&w and Color, Slide and have this beast do it.

    Again, thank you so much for your help.
    Tom
     
  18. cmacd123

    cmacd123 Member

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    Now that is a NICE cousin!