Delta 100 at 24ºC? Please advise to a beginner.

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by ISO400, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. ISO400

    ISO400 Member

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Hi everyone! (my 1st post)

    I develop relatively small amounts of B&W 35mm at home and then scan them.
    For now I don't make analog enlargements, all the processing is in the computer.

    I shoot ILFORD Delta 100 and HP5. I use ID-11 for everything, because I'm still learning. I may eventually switch to Kodak D-76 which is cheaper here.

    I live in Chicago, and especially in the summer, I discovered that developing at 20ºC is an issue.
    The interior air temperature is 23ºC or more and trying to maintain 20ºC developer is impractical. I'd much more prefer to develop at 24ºC - this is my cold tap water temperature anyways (around 23.5ºC).
    Delta 100 packaging only lists 20ºC times at 1+0 or 1+1 ID-11 solution.

    QUESTION for you guys: what are the ramifications of switching to developing Delta 100 at 24ºC (1+1 or 1+3)?
    24ºC would be like 7.5 minutes in 1+1, does it make sense to switch to 1+3 and extend the time?

    On Delta 100, I'd like to keep the grain as small as possible, as well as maintain smooth contrast, because I prefer to adjust contrast in digital post-processing.
    Can you share your wisdom?

    Thank you!
     
  2. Bob-D659

    Bob-D659 Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Location:
    Winnipeg, Ca
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Try a tub of water and a few icecubes to cool it down, put a bottle of developer in the fridge to cool it down as well. Much easier than keeping C41 processing at +/- a half degree at almost 100F.
     
  3. johnielvis

    johnielvis Member

    Messages:
    942
    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    hey dude-I'm in chicago too...
    I've standardized on 75 degrees myself--no issues just do a couple of tests to get things right--shorter time and higher temps look to me like less fog and more contrast--i'd use the same dilution but just shorten the time if possible myself--longer times give longer time for the chemicals to act on the fog and develop that...but if your stuff is too contrasty to begin with then yes..dilute and longer time.

    i think the warmer temp helps in getting rid of that pesky anti halation layer faster and more completely myself.
     
  4. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,093
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    24ºC isn't a problem if that's close to the ambient/water temperature then it's fine. When I'm in Turkey I processat up to 27ºC, messing around with ice is a waste of time, I can process within +/- 0.2ºC by working to the ambient temperature with no effort.

    Just remember to compensate the development time for the temperature difference and then keep to that temperature throughout the rest of the processing & washing. (I use Delta 100 & 400).

    Ian
     
  5. dehk

    dehk Member

    Messages:
    890
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Location:
    W Michigan
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  6. ISO400

    ISO400 Member

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thank you very much all of you guys!
    I have the adjustment chart printed, and I have messed around with ice cubes in a small tub. But developing at ambient temp was what I really wanted to do.

    Johnielvis, you explained to me exactly what I wanted to know. I will try to do both 1+1 and 1+3 and see which one is better for scanning in the end.

    One last thing, does more dilution + longer time impact the grain by a significant margin in my case?
     
  7. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,093
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    There's more grain at 1+3 than FS or 1+1 but sharpness improves, however for scanning that's less important than fine grain.

    Ian
     
  8. MartinP

    MartinP Member

    Messages:
    1,481
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Shooter:
    35mm
    The time compensation data comes with the packet of developer. It is also available on the Ilford website - looks like someone has already posted the link. Using the developer at 1:1 will make the time a little longer and minimise any problems with dev times that are too short for consistency. Experimentation should be minimal as Ilford have already worked it out for you.
     
  9. johnielvis

    johnielvis Member

    Messages:
    942
    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    man....that grain is a question that is difficult....I don't use the developer you're using...longer time in a solvant developer means longer solvant action and finer grain from that.....longer time also means bigger grain growth time too...but there's less grain growth when you can't grow any due to solvant action....there's an interplay that is sometimes hard to predict (for me anyways).

    but for negatives, I think anything that gets you in the ballpark will do the job...then you just "dial it in" after a few times through and you're set

    you'd really have to see what your dev/film combo does under the actual conditions--the charts and such just get you in the ballpark--the just because a chart or even a densitometer says that you have gamma plus one or whatever doesn't mean you'll think it's "enough"...the charts and measurements mislead since it implies that all results look the same---they don't (that is, they don't to me)...

    in short--sorry--you'll have to do the bullwork now.
     
  10. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,246
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Florida
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    grain increases with development time.that said. it's never a good idea to change more than one variable when testing the impact one influence.
     
  11. ISO400

    ISO400 Member

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I totally appreciate all your answers and time. I know that certain knowledge comes from experience but a little "practical theory" won't hurt.
    After shooting film for 7 years I moved to digital for 8 more and now I'm back, this time on a more serious level.
    Thank you!
     
  12. Urmonas

    Urmonas Member

    Messages:
    42
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Developing at 24C will give more grain than developing at 20C. I would go for the ice in the tub method. I have done this for tap water temperatures of 30+ with good success. You only need to keep it constant for the development, after that if it slowly drifts up it is not an issue.
     
  13. Ronald Moravec

    Ronald Moravec Member

    Messages:
    1,261
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    Downers Grov
    I have done careful comparisons with that combo and 68 gives finer grain than 75, very slightly.

    There is a chart on Ilfords web site that gives temp compensation. It works well for me.

    I use Filtered Chicago water, Focomat ic, and the Ilford times are perfect.
     
  14. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,093
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    There's absolutely no difference in the amount of grain at 18, 20, 22, 24 or 27° C provided you keep the temperature stable for the whole process cycle including washing.

    The myth of grain being caused by temperature is because older films suffer from surface artefacts also known as micro reticulation with temperature changes between steps. Some films are more prone than others and choice of developer has an impact. It's why German Rodinal users prefer to work at 18°C, the hydroxide in modern Rodinal causes additional softening of the emulasion.

    Ian
     
  15. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

    Messages:
    9,092
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Location:
    Ryde, Isle o
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    It wouldn't be like 7.5 minutes, it actually would be 7.5 minutes according to Ilford's chart..


    Steve.