Delta 3200 and Dektol: minimising grain?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Marco Buonocore, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. Marco Buonocore

    Marco Buonocore Member

    Messages:
    334
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Location:
    Toronto
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I'm shooting Delta 3200 in my Olympus Pen F, and developing in Dektol. The combination seems quite grainy. What can I do to solve this problem? I've heard that adding whole wheat flour to the Dektol might help, but haven't done the tests yet. Any ideas welcome.
     
  2. Darkroom317

    Darkroom317 Member

    Messages:
    614
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Location:
    University o
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Why Dektol in the first place if it is so grainy?
     
  3. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,200
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Location:
    Montreal, Ca
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Marco - try a higher developing temperature, something around 150F. Wipe that grain right out/off!
     
  4. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

    Messages:
    14,950
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You should try using a film developer instead of a print developer first. Ilfotec DD-X is quite good with Delta 3200. It keeps the grain honest while giving wonderfully printable negatives. Another good choice is Kodak Xtol.
    Or, embrace the fact that the film is grainy, and develop it in Rodinal 1+25 and print it big. It's beautiful!
     
  5. Mike Crawford

    Mike Crawford Member

    Messages:
    507
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Location:
    London, UK
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Wow. Have always used Dektol or PQ specifically to increase grain. It was marvelous for making Kodak Recording Film as gritty as er....grit. And with a half frame? Ilfosol is quite good for not being too excessive though good idea to rate around 1000 and test different dev times. I bought an Olympus half frame a few years ago inspired by Ray K Metzker but have never worked out a good rating/ exposure method with it's limited settings.

    Like the work on your website Marco.
     
  6. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council

    Messages:
    9,184
    Joined:
    May 24, 2005
    Location:
    Washington D
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Dektol does nothing BUT emphasize grain in film. Without a doubt, switch developers! I think this would be a really good case for using a pyro developer which has grain-masking effects from the pyro stain. In any case, use something that can be diluted down without losing activity.
     
  7. Chris Lange

    Chris Lange Member

    Messages:
    780
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Location:
    NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    No, no, no, you're doing it all wrong. I use a half frame cam to expose 35mm Delta 3200, which, after processing in rodinal 1:25, gets contact printed onto another roll of Delta 3200, which is then processed in Dektol at 105 degrees.

    I swear, sometimes I think it rivals CMS20 and Tech Pan...
     
  8. Chris Lange

    Chris Lange Member

    Messages:
    780
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Location:
    NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Here are my results, I dare anyone to do better...

    Untitled-1.jpg
     
  9. Mike Crawford

    Mike Crawford Member

    Messages:
    507
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Location:
    London, UK
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Chris
    To quote Prince, you got the look!
     
  10. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser

    Messages:
    19,115
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Location:
    local
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    what time and dilution are you using ?
    i would still use dektol, without flour
    but increase your dilution to 1:10 for around 10minutes .. @ around 68º

    i have been processing film in dektol's first cousin, ansco 130 ( or something like it )
    for the better part of 13-14 years ... and my film is not excessively grainy
    and grain is not emphasized ... dektol was originally formulated for both film(+plates) and paper.


    good luck !
    john
     
  11. K-G

    K-G Subscriber

    Messages:
    349
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Location:
    Goth, Sweden
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  12. darkosaric

    darkosaric Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,865
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2008
    Location:
    Hamburg, DE
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It is stronger than me - I must joke a little:

    To minimise the grain use Adox CMS 20 developed in Adotech - and use Rolleiflex with planar lens, not Pen F :D
     
  13. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

    Messages:
    2,125
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Whole wheat flour? Are you trying to make gravy?
     
  14. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,672
    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Me thinks a leg is being pulled.
     
  15. Truzi

    Truzi Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,614
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Wouldn't wheat flour add "grain?" Sorry, that just jumped out at me. :smile:
     
  16. polyglot

    polyglot Member

    Messages:
    3,469
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Location:
    South Austra
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I find a presoak with constant agitation in granular silicon carbide does wonders for smoothing out this combination.

    Or failing that, the smoothest results involve use of a ferricyanide or EDTA-based developers. Not a grain in sight!
     
  17. Mike Crawford

    Mike Crawford Member

    Messages:
    507
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Location:
    London, UK
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Ah! Did overlook the bit about the whole grain flour. :smile:
    Next thing they'll be saying you can process film in coffee!
     
  18. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,672
    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Or vitamin C
     
  19. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,672
    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Another thing I've experimented with (accidentally) is processing normal B&W film in a normal C41 process. Absolutely grainless.

    (My autocorrect actually suggested brainless instead of grainless. :wink: )
     
  20. Terry Christian

    Terry Christian Subscriber

    Messages:
    689
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2011
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Use cake flour instead. It gives a much lighter grain.
     
  21. Chris Lange

    Chris Lange Member

    Messages:
    780
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Location:
    NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Personally, I like adding ice cream sprinkles.
     
  22. TheToadMen

    TheToadMen Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,527
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Location:
    Netherlands,
    Shooter:
    Pinhole
    I've seen that before, but where ???
    I think it was with cine film somewhere back in the 80's ...

    poltergeist_1_1600x900.jpg
     
  23. TheToadMen

    TheToadMen Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,527
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Location:
    Netherlands,
    Shooter:
    Pinhole
    No, no, this is push processing :D
     
  24. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,887
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Shoot Delta 3200 @ 1600 and develop it in Perceptol.