Delta 3200 in 120 - Water Spots?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by seadrive, May 18, 2012.

  1. seadrive

    seadrive Member

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    Hi guys and gals,

    I decided to try a few different brands/speeds of film before standardizing on one and buying a bunch of it.

    One of the films I tried was Delta 3200. The thought of having a film that can actually be rated at 800 or higher (for me, that would be two stops faster than Tri-X) makes me giddy!

    I like the film, and I do believe it's a true ISO 1000 (maybe higher) film, but... it beads water like no film I've ever seen before!

    Even with twice as much Photo-Flo as usual, water drops still appear on the film. I've never before had to sponge a hanging roll of film that had been treated with Photo-Flo. I use distilled water in the final rinse, and add Photo-Flo to it.

    Is this normal with Delta 3200?
     
  2. Helinophoto

    Helinophoto Member

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    Sorry that I cannot answer for that film in particular.

    But a tip: I do this with every film now:
    - Hold the tank without the lid, with only the spool and the center piece inside, straight down in your hand after washing.
    - Swing the tank back and fourth (forwards and backwards) in a pendulum motion 5 times.
    - Take spool with film out.
    - Empty tank.
    - Repeat with 5 pendulum motions, then 10, then 15.
    - Don't swing it too hard so you loose your grip on the tank, also make sure you have the room to do it, or you will bang into something.

    This centrifuge step helps, at least me, to get rid of the main part of water otherwise usually clinging to the middle of the film frames.

    Would be interesting to know if D3200 is special in this department, i have a roll in 120 to be used soon.
     
  3. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Subscriber

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    Humm, that's odd. I've shot several rolls of it, like it a lot, and had zero problems and noticed nothing different. I'm using Freestyle's house brand "Photo Flo" but really, wetting agent is wetting agent. I use an eye dropper and put about one drop per 1.5 ounces of distilled water for the final rinse. No problems.

    My usual procedure - I remove the film from the reel as I NEVER immerse my Jobo reels in wetting agent. Doing so tends to gum up plastic reels over time and make them sticky and difficult to load. I gently immerse the curled film (it won't scratch itself if you are careful and gentle) in another tank with the wetting agent, and let it soak for about a minute. I remove it, dip two fingers of my other hand in the wetting agent and rub index and middle fingers together to make sure there is no grit, then very gently run the film between my two fingers. I know this will produce howls, but I have never, ever, scratched film this way. Hang to dry. Never had a problem.

    I agree it's probably a "true" ISO 1000, but low contrast so it pushes well. I rate it at 3200 and develop per the instructions for 6400, something I started with TMZ - I find the published times err on the side of finer grain and thinnner negs. #$%^ that. If I wanted fine grain I'd shoot TMX, Acros, or Efke 25 off a tripod if necessary. :wink: "Grain is the brushstroke of photography" within reason and I find 6x6 and 6x4.5 Delta 3200 at 3200 well within reason for myself. Beautiful negs for the right subject matter.
     
  4. Maris

    Maris Member

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    Used to get water spots on film if the photoflo solution dried before it had run off. Wherever the bubbles stop that's where the water spot will form. Remedy: hang the film at a 45 degree angle. The bubbles only have to get across (not down) the film and any accumulation on the bottom edge is out of the picture area.
     
  5. RPippin

    RPippin Subscriber

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    Through in a couple of shots of Isopropyl Alcohol to a gallon of working solution of Fotoflow. I've never had a problem with streaks, runs or spots since adding two ounces per gallon since. I've left sheet film in a tray with this solution over night as well.
     
  6. sly

    sly Subscriber

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    I've shot a lot of Delta 3200, in 35mm (grain!) and 120. Have never noticed the spots any tendancy to spotting; unless I do something careless, just like any other film.
     
  7. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

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    Is that US gallons or IMP gallons?

    How do you all get by with this system when real accuracy is needed?

    I was telling my students the other day that 1 Liter of water, is exactly 10 cubed centimeters in volume, and exactly 1 Kilogram in weight.
    This is true no matter where in the world you are, and you do not need a calculator to find out what % of a liter is.
     
  8. Helinophoto

    Helinophoto Member

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    I agree, I don't get the non-metric terminology either.
    Three square foot pounds of pressure (wtf).
    Three ounces to a gallon. (??)
    Mile
    Foot? (feet vary in size :tongue: ).

    And that's the scientific stuff, it all gets really sweet when you find a recipe for a film dev and it says:
    "cups" and "teaspoons"

    - How did you people manage to send people to the moon??? :D
    Metric is so much easier to deal with, since just about everything is a power of 10 and it is exact all over the world, no matter what cups and teaspoons there may exist, or how big feet people have :tongue:
     
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  9. i.candide

    i.candide Member

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    helenophoto - practice and determination :smile:

    i.candide
    Dangerous to oneself
     
  10. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Subscriber

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    For this purpose close enough is close enough. Figure a gallon is four liters and you'll be close enough. It isn't of course - four liters will be about a cup more than a gallon, but it's more than close enough for diluting wetting agent.*

    I'm thinking of re-calibrating my car speedometer in furlongs per fortnight...

    *More precisely, 1 US gallon = 3.78541178 liters. But like I said, close enough.
     
  11. Helinophoto

    Helinophoto Member

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    So, a cup is then 0.22 liters (or 2.2 deciliters, 22 centiliters, or even 220 milliliters). Heck, I have tea-cups twice that size :D

    cup (c) [1]a traditional unit of volume used in recipes in the United States. One cup equals 1/2 (liquid) pint, or 8 fluid ounces. Technically, one cup equals exactly 14.4375 cubic inches or approximately 236.6 milliliters, not that anyone measures quite so precisely in the kitchen. American cooks use the same size cup for measuring both liquid and dry substances. In Canada, a cup is equal to 8 Imperial fluid ounces (13.8710 cubic inches or 227.3 milliliters). In Britain, cooks sometimes used a similar but larger unit called the breakfast cup, equal to 10 Imperial fluid ounces. The British cup equals 1/2 Imperial pint, but the Canadian cup is only 0.4 Imperial pint. cup (c) [2]an informal metric unit of volume equal to 250 milliliters, commonly used in recipes in Australia.
    Wait, what? :sad:
    (But you were pretty spot on with the gallon thing) :wink:

    Just kidding with you guys off course ^^ didn't mean to pull the thread OT, I'll shut up now :smile:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2012
  12. Bob-D659

    Bob-D659 Member

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    Maybe too much photoflo. It will dry and form spots. Try one drop per 300ml of distilled water, that's about what I use and never get spots.
     
  13. seadrive

    seadrive Member

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    Definitely not a matter of too much. It's not that I get spots out of nowhere, I can see where they're coming from. They're coming from the beads of water sitting on the film after it comes out of the Photo-Flo!

    I've pretty much eliminated Delta 3200 from the running anyway, so I'm not going to worry about it too much, but thanks to everyone for your suggestions.

    As for America putting a man on the moon in spite of this crazy system of measurement we have...

    yes​

    and that's all I have to say about that! :smile:
     
  14. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    On the measurement front ....

    First, don't convert back and forth - it will drive toy to distraction.

    Secondly, the non-metric measurement systems do have some internal logic, it is just that the internal logic doesn't apply system wide. As an example, the 1 ounce - 8 ounces to the cup - 4 cups to the quart - 4 quarts to the gallon progression is useful and practical, just not as rigorous and logical as the equivalent metric progression.

    And there is no apparent relationship between units of mass, length and volume.

    The non-metric units themselves are in most cases way older than the metric equivalents - they became "standard" over centuries of use, and tend to have originated (haphazardly!) as a result of practical, everyday requirements. For that reason, they tend to have a real-life sense of scale - a liquid ounce is way easier to visualize than a milliliter.

    I am blessed/cursed with being of the generation (in Canada) that was educated in both metric and non-metric measurements. And here in Canada we are cursed with having both systems in use side-by-side - meat is sold by the pound in one store (with metric equivalents shown in tiny characters) and by the 100 grams in the next store.

    I blame all the US TV we see :smile:.
     
  15. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    NO, NO.Furlongs are nowhere near accurate enough. You need to sub divide into Rods, Poles and Perches. Chains are handy when measuring out the distance between wickets on a cricket pitch and never go to sea without being able to work out distance in cables :D

    As the late Nelson's cabin boy I have to study all such things. Such accuracy and simplicity in measurement gave us victory at Trafalgar a couple of years ago. :D

    pentaxuser