Delta 3200 in Pyrocat

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by herb, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. herb

    herb Member

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    I seem to have awakened some evil spirits when i decided to use this film. I have shot/ruined 3 rolls, two 35mm and 1 120 so far and thought a post was in order.
    I use pyrocat hd 1:100 for all my films, pre soak, then develop- typically 11 min with agitation every 2 minutes. This worked nicely for Delta 400 and 100, but holy moley, not 3200.

    I shot the last bit of 35mm at 1600 speed, developed for 16 minutes with presoak, agitation for 30 sec initially and then 15 sec of agitation every two minutes, and got VERY thin negatives.

    Something in the film that does not like pcat?? My chemistry is not very old, mixed it a month or so ago, and am using it without problems on the other two films.
     
  2. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

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    I dont understand when you say (1+100) as the normal mix is (1+1+100) and further on you state the chems were mixed only a month ago. Are you refering to mixing the raw chems to make the two solutions or did you mix both solutions together already, when they should only be mixed just prior to use.
     
  3. john_s

    john_s Member

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    Pyrocat in my experience is a lovely developer (my favorite) but it needs generous exposure. Since the whole point of these "3200" films is underexposure and salvaging with overdevelopment, I think a speed enhancing developer would be much better.
     
  4. pgomena

    pgomena Member

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    I exposed a few rolls of Delta 3200 120 last summer, carefully metering with an incident meter, film speed set to 1000. I developed it in divided Pyrocat-HD, and the resulting images were pretty darned good. I probably would rate it at 800 next time. It needed a touch more contrast and a touch more exposure. I'd probably use Pyrocat-HD in the 1:1:100 dilution next time unless the scene is very contrasty. This film has a loooong, flat tonal scale, but it's lovely stuff.

    Peter Gomena
     
  5. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    For Delta 3200 you must consider it a push over 1000 ISO. So 1600 EI is 1 stop push, 3200 is 2 stop push really. Thus a developer good for pushing is recommended. Microphen stock, HC 1+15 both work very well but I find I usually develop for 1 stop further so if I shoot at 3200 I develop using the time for 6400. DD-X 1+4 I find needs even more extra time, shoot at 3200 develop for 12800. Delta 3200 really needs a lot of time in the tank to yield good density.
     
  6. herb

    herb Member

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    Thanks, my earlier post should have said I dissolved the raw chemicals into A and B each a month or so ago, and I did use the 1:1:100 dilution in the original post.

    Peter, you did not state your times or agitation. I have not tried the divided regimen of pcat development, although I did print out Sandy's posts and others about it. would you mind giving a bit more detail?

    Thanks to all who replied.
     
  7. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    I would recommend doing a test, if you can verify that your pyrocat is still good by successfully developing a roll of your usual Delta 400/100.

    Expose a roll where you bracket your exposures. 400, 800, 1600. Develop for the 16 minutes you used before, agitating for 10s every minute.
    Examine the roll and pick the exposure index that gives you enough shadow detail.
    Now shoot a whole roll at that exposure index, let's say it was 800.
    Cut the roll in thirds and develop one piece at a time. If 16 minutes makes the negative highlights look too thin, you need to increase development when developing the second piece of film. Judge from there and see if you can get perfect negs with the third piece.
    Important: Judge the negatives by printing them.

    This is something you should do any time you use a new film and developer combination.

    Then, on top of this, if you feel a need to shoot a roll at EI 1600, you obviously have to compensate for the underexposure by developing longer, and a new test will be in order.

    Good luck,

    - Thomas
     
  8. herb

    herb Member

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    Thanks Thomas, I usually don't have problems with film/developer, but this was quite unusual
     
  9. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Delta 3200 often needs to be developed quite a bit longer than other films to get the contrast you need for good prints. Especially if you expose it at 1600, which technically is a push.
    Two developers that I have found work really well are Ilford Ilfotec DD-X or Kodak HC-110. DD-X for shadow detail and HC-110 for contrast. A good starting point is Ilford's time given for one stop more underexposure than you gave, so if you shot it at 1,600, develop it at the time Ilford says for 3,200 and so on. It has yielded me some fabulous negatives in the past.
     
  10. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

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    Ethol UFG(ultra fine grain) has times for T-max up to 6400(3200+1stop push), just might do the trick for you. The other thing I can think of for using pyro, increase temp to keep your time down, and still increase density and contrast in the negs.
     
  11. craigclu

    craigclu Subscriber

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    I tried this combo on a 120/645 test a few years ago...Once! It didn't seem like a good pairing. I got an EI of 640 at 16 minutes with my equipment and techniques and from past patterns of mine, I'd guess others would be pleased enough at 800, though. I think that you might need to use a developer more suited to the task (though I'm a big PyroCat fan [settled on the MC variant] and use it almost exclusively on other films). I've had my best luck with Xtol 1:1 on Delta 3200 and would nudge you in that direction....
     
  12. pgomena

    pgomena Member

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    Herb -

    I followed Sandy King's regimen for the divided development. Solution A and B diluted separately, 1:10 with water, 75 degrees F. 5 minute presoak in 75 degree water, 6 minutes in each solution. I was shooting in a variety of lighting situations at an evening street fair, so going with the divided developer was a good way for me to get the best average negatives. I think Craig Shroeder's advice to try X-tol 1:1 would be a good way to go as well. T-Max developer is another good choice for this film and T-Max 3200. The long tonal scale needs a developer with some oomph to get the right contrast. That's why, in hindsight, I might have used Pyrocat-HD 1:1:100 with a normal agitation scheme instead of divided. My negs are good, but a bit flat.

    Peter Gomena
     
  13. Black Dog

    Black Dog Member

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    That's what I did following the advice gleaned from Unblinking Eye- 60 mins semistand diluted 1+200 and rated at 1250/1600. Might try doubling the B solution to add some more alkaline oomph actually.
     
  14. herb

    herb Member

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    Delta 3200 development

    I had a bag of xtol. I had never mixed it, but had the idea to try it-lo and behold, worked like a champ stock, 9 min agitation every 30 sec. Half the roll shot at 800 and half at 1600 film is drying. Negs are good, a bit early to definitively decide about time/speed etc.