I've contacted Ilford in regards to getting a time for these two films, but it seems they have forgotten about me since I have yet to hear back from them. Anyway I send my B&W to a lab to process, since I am unable to do it myself. They use Xtol straight at 24 degrees dip and dunk machine processing. Does anyone have times for these two unusual films for Xtol? Secondly has anyone confirmed what these two films actually are? Are they FP3 and HP4? Or something else? I know they are grainier then the current FP4/ HP5+ films. Are they as grainy as say Forte/ Bergger films were?