Developer suggestions for Ilford Galerie (Gr. 3)

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Colin Corneau, May 12, 2009.

  1. Colin Corneau

    Colin Corneau Subscriber

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    Hey kids

    I picked up a pack of 8x10 Galerie -- just to try out my very first graded paper.

    Normally use MG-FB warmtone by Ilford, with their warmtone developer, and love it. And yes, I know this is very subjective...but I always appreciate and respect the voice of experience.

    Also, any info on how this paper tones? I use selenium, normally, and am getting into sepia also.
     
  2. Martin Aislabie

    Martin Aislabie Subscriber

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    Galerie - lovely paper

    Responds well to different developers - cool/neutral/warm - it is very slightly warm emulsion in neutral Ilford MG Dev on a very white base

    My preference if for cool tone developers - but I don't know what you have available on your side of the pond

    It also responds well to developer concentration

    Tones well to all the Toners I have tried - about half way between Ilford Multigrade FB (not much) to Ilford Warm Tone Fibre (lots)

    I find if you work with it - it pays you back

    Have fun

    Martin
     
  3. jmcd

    jmcd Member

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    Bromophen is a good choice.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2009
  4. eddym

    eddym Member

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    I love Galerie. I've used it with Zone VI developer and dilute Rapid Selenium toner, and get a tone just slightly warmer than neutral. With Ilford Warmtone developer, it's even warmer, but then can go reddish with too much selenium toner.
     
  5. silveror0

    silveror0 Member

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    Galerie Gr 2&3 is pretty much my standard paper, used with Dektol 1:2 or occasionally 1:3. Fixer is followed by a rinse, then plain hypo (with a bit of sodium sulfite for resistance to staining), then rapid selenium toner 1:10 with Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent stock (1:4). I keep the toning bath at 75-80F. Air dried overnight, as heat drying negates the toning effect. Gives slightly warm tone with bright whites. Love it.
     
  6. Colin Corneau

    Colin Corneau Subscriber

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    Wow, great advice all.

    Still a bit green, to not know the trick with sodium sulfite...any tips on how much to add? This is timely because I had a print I really worked on and just loved, found the perfect method to sepia tone JUST right and selenium tone JUST right...only to have a stain somehow in the top ruin it.
     
  7. haryanto

    haryanto Member

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    I use Kodak dektol or D72 homebrew 1:2 for 2-3 minutes, got excellent results, Gallerie is great paper
     
  8. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    Contrast Control Developer?

    With Graded paper a contrast control developer
    is a good thing to have. Beer's or Adam's Ansco
    120 are two. Edwal markets an off the shelf
    version. Dan
     
  9. Richard Jepsen

    Richard Jepsen Member

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    When toned in KSRT Galerie has a minor color shift but changes color faster than MG IV. If your into a sepia warm look you may want to try the new/changed Oriental WT or FOMA warmtone. Galerie's base color is slighty warmer (warm gray) than Ilford MG IV. For contrast control consider using a condensor light source tor increased contrast and a diffused head for lower contrast. Additional control can be found using Dektol and a slightly lower contast developer like Ansco 130. EMAKS graded is another very good paper. EMAKS grade 2 is very soft.
     
  10. silveror0

    silveror0 Member

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    Colin,
    I add 910 gms plain hypo (sodium thiosulfate) to 2360 cc water and stir to dissolve, then add 113 gms sodium sulfite, stir again, then add water to make one gallon, stir again. The sodium sulfite MINIMIZES the chance of staining and avoids build-up of thiocyanates in the fixer, so I’m told. My prints (double weight only) made in the ‘70s show no signs of deterioration yet, and since I’m not making prints commercially I choose to not take any shortcuts to expedite processing; however it seems that using a hardening fixer may cause the paper emulsion to not readily accept spotting dyes, so I’m considering a non-hardening fixer now. FWIW, the process I use when toning is worth mentioning, since it differs from Ilford’s recommendations.

    Process sequence following stop bath –
    All agitation is by tray rocking
    • 1st fixer (Kodak Fixer), 3 min @ 68F, constant agitation
    • Rinse front and back under running water; prints are stored in cold water until ready for final processing
    • 2nd fixer (plain hypo + sodium sulfite), 3 min @ 68F, constant agitation
    • Toner, prints go directly into toner without draining, 75-80F, constant agitation
    • Hypo Clearing Agent, 3 min @ 68F, constant agitation
    • Rinse both sides in running water, several minutes (using inverted tray propped up at one end)
    • Final wash, 1 hr minimum, 65-70F, in archival washer
    • Squeegee off excess water (inverted tray)
    • Dry by placing face down on drying screen overnight

    BTW you may be interested in the processing used by Alan Ross to make Yosemite Special Edition Photographs from Ansel Adams’ negatives:
    http://www.anseladams.com/content/care_collecting/SEP_processing_methods.html
     
  11. Martin Aislabie

    Martin Aislabie Subscriber

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    Staining is usually caused by either insufficient fixing or print washing before toning or possibly both.

    To fully fix a print for Toning you need either very fresh Fix in a single bath or a two bath fixing regime (see Darkroom Cookbook 3rd Ed)

    To properly wash you need to soak the print in a bath of either a commercial Hypo Clearing Agent or a self made one (again Darkroom Cookbook - Sodium Sulphite 20g per litre of working sol’n)

    After the Hypo Clearing Agent soak give the print a good wash before you start the Toning process.

    Martin
     
  12. silveror0

    silveror0 Member

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    Colin,
    I fear there is a possibility for you to be confused now that you have what may seem to be contradictory info from Martin and me. I suppose I should’ve given my reference for my post earlier. Since I’m certainly not smart enough to come up with this stuff, I defer to the experts. All that I posted was taken from Ansel Adams’ “The Print”, 1st Edition. I had used that source years ago to prepare a step-by-step procedure to keep handy in my Darkroom Notebook, along with chemistry info, simply because I can’t remember all of that stuff. Actually, what Martin has told you is just one way to get satisfactory results. I just re-examined Kodak Publication G-23 “Toning Black-and-White Materials” dated May 2006 on their website (search for selenium toning) and they say pretty much the same as Martin regarding the washing part of the process. But it also states the following (emphasis added) which mimics the AA procedure:

    Wash fiber-base prints in running water at 18 to 20C
    (65 to 75F) for one hour, or use KODAK Hypo Clearing
    Agent to reduce the wash time; wash resin-coated prints for
    4 minutes.
    Note: If you use Hypo Clearing Agent after fixing fiber-base
    prints, you can use a working solution of Hypo Clearing
    Agent to dilute Rapid Selenium Toner 1:20 or 1:40, and
    eliminate the wash step between fixing and toning. To avoid
    stains, don’t rinse the prints after fixing; immerse them
    directly into the combination bath, and tone for
    approximately 3 minutes for print protection or longer for a
    tone change. Do not reuse this Hypo Clearing Agent bath to
    treat untoned prints; it will contain traces of toner. After
    using this combination bath, wash the prints for at least
    30 minutes in running water at 18 to 20C (65 to 75F) with
    frequent agitation.

    Apparently Kodak still hasn’t noticed the erroneous conversion of 20C to 75F yet. Any fool knows that 20C is 68F. AA says to limit wash water to 70F (cooler than toner temp) or risk losing some of the toning effect (AA explains the reason). Note also that AA calls for 1:10 to 1:20 toner dilution, rather than 1:20 or 1:40.

    Regarding sodium sulfite, AA says 2 lbs plain hypo per gal, to which is added about 4 oz sodium sulfite. I used my darkroom scales to convert this to what I posted.

    Hope this clarifies any potential confusion.

    Jerry
     
  13. Colin Corneau

    Colin Corneau Subscriber

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    Thanks, guys.

    This is interesting, because I've been using fresh (Ilford non-hardening) fixer, then washing thoroughly and using fresh Edwal HCA. They recommend using a 2-bath setup for this, at 1:15. I then wash it thoroughly after that, also.

    In addition, I kept the prints in a wash tray, with water slightly (5-10 degrees C) warmer than the selenium toner, which is Ilford's product at 1:10.

    I've only had the one print have a small, globby stain at the top, seems almost like a water mark or something.

    Anyway, this is all great info and I thank you.
     
  14. Richard Jepsen

    Richard Jepsen Member

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    Note: If you use Hypo Clearing Agent after fixing fiber-base
    prints, you can use a working solution of Hypo Clearing
    Agent to dilute Rapid Selenium Toner 1:20 or 1:40, and
    eliminate the wash step between fixing and toning. To avoid
    stains, don’t rinse the prints after fixing; immerse them
    directly into the combination bath.....


    Yes, you can use this older technique to avoid stains but HCA mixed in KRST has a limited shelf life. This results in discarding toner after a few days. Stains occur if the paper is not in an alkaline state. Another path to avoid stains is avoiding an acid environment by using a weak stop bath or effective water stop. Fix prints in TF-4 or similar alkaline fix. Follow with a 5 min water rinse prior to toning. Discard toner when it fails to tone efficiently (30-40 8x10s) or 5+ months). Toner sediment is reduced. Use HCA after toning. Prints wash faster in an alkaline fix (20 - 30 min). If using one tray limit fiber print capacity to (12) 8x10s per L.
     
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