developing films with Kodak developer but fixing it with Ilford fixer... Is that OK ?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Pawel Kwiecien, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. Pawel Kwiecien

    Pawel Kwiecien Member

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    Hi.
    It's kind a silly question I suppose , but I prefer to ask it...
    Am I allowed to developing films with Kodak D-76 Developer but fixing it with Ilford HYPAM RAPID FIXER ? Will that work?
    Please forgive me if that's stupid question but I'm not very experienced in B&W developing process as I always used Ilford stuff before...

    many thanks,

    p.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2012
  2. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    Not a stupid question.

    Yes, it will work just fine.
     
  3. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Yes, do not be afraid to ask questions. None of us were born with the knowledge.
     
  4. Pawel Kwiecien

    Pawel Kwiecien Member

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    thanks a lot guys,

    regards,

    p.
     
  5. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    D-76 is a general developer for all B&W films. Ilford Rapid Fixer is a general fixer for all B&W films. They will work with ALL B&W films currently available. Timing may be different but other than that, no problems.

    In fact, D-76 is pretty much a standard everybody goes by. I am not aware of any film that doesn't list timing information for processing it with D-76.
     
  6. Pawel Kwiecien

    Pawel Kwiecien Member

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    nice one, thanks,

    so let me ask other question .

    What would u recommend as single, universal developer and fixer for film and paper ( to save money and instead of buying two types of developers and fixers : one for film and one for paper I could buy a bulk of same universal developer and fixer for both) ?


    p.
     
  7. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    THAT question has been asked so many times and 20 pages of discussion later, no clear winners.... here's my answer though.

    Film developer: D-76 (works with every film, every photographer has used it, and highly available)
    Paper developer: Dektol (same as above)

    There are two different types of fixers. Regular fixer and Rapid Fixer. As the name implies, the latter works much faster. Also, there is something called "hardener" mixed into many fixers. This component makes (supposed to make) the delicate emulsion of film and paper more durable. Some says it isn't necessary. But it also makes washing time much longer.

    I use Ilford Rapid Fixer which is both rapid and hardener free for both film and paper.
    In the past, I used Kodak professional fixer for both and just washed longer.
    Only thing with fixer is, fix long enough but not overly long and wash sufficiently long time.

    Either one or different one will work just fine.

    Now, 865 different opinions will follow mine. Stand-by....
     
  8. dorff

    dorff Member

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    Each developer has slightly or sometimes very unique characteristics. D76 is so popular because it does most things well, though none of them "best in class". ID-11 is for all purposes the same developer as D76. So most other developers can be described in relation to D76, e.g. more/less contrasty, better/worse shadow detail or film speed, finer/coarser grain etc. Some developer-film combinations behave out of character for either the film or the developer. In that instance, D76 and Xtol are good developers, as most modern films have been developed with them in mind and will yield good results. Rodinal is the easiest developer to make and by far the cheapest, but for some films it just doesn't work well (eg Kentmere 400). The same can be said for some of the Caffenol formulas (with eg TMax 400). There are many possibilities, and they can be overwhelming for a beginner. Therefore, I think the most pragmatic approach is to stick to one or two emulsions, let's say a fast and slow one, and to pick one developer to work with. Then only change when there is something that you want to achieve that is not possible with what you have.

    The higher the alkalinity of your developer, the more the gelatine softens during development, AFAIK. So the best combination in my opinion depends on the developer you use. If you use a high-pH film developer such as Rodinal at low dilution, then it helps to use a hardening fixer. For mild developers like Xtol and D76 it may be unnecessary. I keep film and paper fixer apart, because that way it is easier to keep track of how far I have used it. I think many people use one batch for both film and paper with little to no ill effect. Try and see what works for you.

    Rodinal is the only film developer that I know of that is also routinely applied to paper development. When diluted, it has poor keeping properties, and therefore has to be made fresh for each batch. There is an article on phenidone-ascorbate developers by Patrick Gainer on unblinking eye somewhere. Google it. Phenidone is available from the suppliers of alternative process chemicals, eg Photo Formulary, Bostik & Sullivan etc. One uses minute quantities of it, so even 10 grams go quite far. The rest of those formulas are prepared using washing soda, vitamin C etc. Those should be available from grocery stores and health food stores. I have tried using his developers for film, and have not liked the results but I may have had a bad batch of phenidone. But for paper they work quite nicely too.

    If you are interested in making Rodinal from paracetamol (aka acetaminophen), let me know. It is easy and cheap, as in a few pence per film developed.
     
  9. salan

    salan Member

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    Now that I would be interested in.
    Alan
     
  10. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    Kodak stopped making universal developer years ago specifically because it was a compromise for both sides of the coin.

    Ilford rapid fix - as do most fixers - has mixing instructions for both film and paper. So it's fine to use. I do.

    Personally I like DDX for film developing. It is not cheap. But it is very convenient, and I like the look. And I also use Ilford liquid paper developer. But the all time standards are D-76 and Dektol as pointed out.
     
  11. dorff

    dorff Member

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    Here is my formula calculator:
    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/110084-pa-rodinal-calculator.html
    Let me know if any further clarification is necessary. If you have trouble pinning the values, use the Goal Seek functionality in Excel, and do it in the order: p-Aminophenol - sulphite - hydroxide. The target value must be 1 (or 100%) in each case. It takes me about twenty seconds to find the quantities for any combination of feed materials and any volume. If you are stuck, PM me and I'll work it out for you.

    This thread provides some additional insight and examples.
    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/...odinal-but-would-appreciate-more-insight.html

    The formula as above is in use in all its permutations, and all of them work consistently and reliably. I suggest you try to obtain pharmaceutical grade raw paracetamol. You may resort to Tylenol capsules (or whatever your local brand name is - here it is Panado), but they contain additional materials (nano silica??), probably to improve the flow properties of the bulk material, which is very light/fluffy and gets airborne by the slightest breeze. It sticks to static surfaces with a tenacity that is hard to describe. To work with pure paracetamol is almost like herding cats. But in larger quantities it is cheaper and once dissolved, is easy to work with and provides a much clearer product. I have paid ZAR210 for 2kg. That translates to roughly US$11.50 per kg. That quantity makes a lot more than five liters of Rodinal concentrate, and one uses on average about 10 ml per film. Some go to 4 ml per film for 1:100 stand development.
     
  12. Felinik

    Felinik Member

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    I use all sorts of developers, but I always use the same fixer and wetting agents from Tetenal, with great success, period.

    Should work more than well buddy!
     
  13. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    Just so it is clear to OP....

    Fixers can be used to both film and paper. BUT, you must keep bottles separate. You do NOT want to use the same working solution for both for it will cross contaminate them. They can be re-used until specified number of prints or film are processed, so it makes sense to have a bottle labeled "for film" and "for paper" and keep re-using them.
     
  14. Pat Erson

    Pat Erson Member

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    My own personnal experience : years ago I was out of Ilford fixer so I bought Kodak's instead. At about half the capacity of the Ilford product the Kodak suddenly stopped working (= I had brown-stained unfixed negs).

    So yeah it might be better to use Ilford or Tetenal fixer (Tetenal makes the stuff for Ilford iirc...)