Development problem? - Comments requested please

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by pdeeh, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. pdeeh

    pdeeh Member

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    Please have a look at the attached image. You'll immediately see the dark streaked edges and sprocket holes.

    This is Adox CHS 25, exposed at box speed, and developed in Adox APH09, 1+50 (6ml+300ml), 8 min @ 20C; Paterson single reel tank, 30 seconds initial - gentle - inversions then one gentle inversion every 30 seconds. Water stop, Ilford Rapid Fix 4 minutes, then Ilford wash regime.

    Only the first 9 frames or so show these markings, the rest of the reel looks fine.

    I will add that this roll was "sticky" going on to the developing spiral - I had to "inch" the last part of the roll on in small increments lest it jam. The image show the beginning of the reel, thus is deepest into the spiral

    I am presuming that this is a problem of insufficient developer reaching these parts of the emulsion, but I am unclear how this might have come about. Is it because the film has buckled against the spiral grooves as it has jammed slightly (the marking is quite regular as you can see) - forcing it to "bunch up" ?

    Could those with greater knowledge and experience comment please?

    many thanks

    [​IMG]
     
  2. anikin

    anikin Subscriber

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    Looks like fogging/light piping to me.
     
  3. pdeeh

    pdeeh Member

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    thanks.
    It's been suggested to me that it is due to the film edges adhering to the spiral grooves thus not allowing developer to reach the emulsion, and that this is not too unommon with the use of plastic reels.
    That explanation seems to fit the circumstances nicely
     
  4. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    What colour are the dark streaked edges and sprocket holes?

    I ask, because if they are exactly the same colour as the image area, they are one thing, but if they are the same colour as undeveloped film, they are another.

    Generally speaking, if there are dark marks on a negative then there has either been a light leak or those marks represent where the negative has received too much development.
     
  5. pdeeh

    pdeeh Member

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    same colour as the image area Matt.
     
  6. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    Could be light leakage through the shutter gate.
    Also, switching lenses in bright sun might cause such thing, in some RF cams.
     
  7. Rafal Lukawiecki

    Rafal Lukawiecki Subscriber

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    I would agree with others, it seems like a light leak to me. It might be while the film is still in the cassette: do the distances between the darkest sections decrease as you reach the last frame on the roll?
     
  8. pdeeh

    pdeeh Member

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    As I said in my initial post, this is only on the first dozen frames. The rest of the roll is fine. The image frames themselves are fine.
    I have no light leaks on any other rolls that have gone through this camera (a Bessa R2A) in the last 6 months.

    I am satisfied that it is best explained by the suggestion that it is due to use of plastic spirals holding the film edges in such a way so as not to allow developer/fixer to reach the emulsion.
     
  9. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    imho, such patterns are not spiral related.
    Its cartidge, camera related. thou bessa r2a got double focal plane shutter...
     
  10. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Perhaps there was some developer residue on the reel before loading.

    But most likely there was a problem with the film cassette that permitted a light leak.
     
  11. Rafal Lukawiecki

    Rafal Lukawiecki Subscriber

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    If the fixer was not reaching the emulsion, you should see a distinct colour cast on the markings.

    The frame areas next to the markings seem to have a slight additional density, from what I can see in your attachement, this could be caused by the slight additional exposure those areas received.
     
  12. cmacd123

    cmacd123 Subscriber

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    POLYESTER BASED FILM. Which will pipe light like crazy and the light comes out near the perfs. If the pictures are fine it is not a problem. You have to load all Poly films in very subdued light, not just in your shadow but away from the sun.
     
  13. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    i suspect some exposure through light piping while the film was still in it's canister.
     
  14. pdeeh

    pdeeh Member

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    well this has all taken on a life of it's own ...

    loaded in subdued light. unloaded in subdued light. spiral loaded in light tight darkroom. tank secured in light tight darkroom.
     
  15. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    Wrap the camera back and bottom with dark tape, shoot another roll in bright light, if is ok, then its the camera.
    I have isolated issues same like Yours but with ltm Leicas, most of the times its not properly set light shields in the shutter cage (IIIc) or loosen curtains that let light leak through the gate.
    In Your case with the CV Bessa its hardly a shutter related leak.. probably is the back, but everything is possible..
    I am not familiar with the construction of the CV Bessas, somebody else might be aware of the source.
     
  16. pdeeh

    pdeeh Member

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    I do appreciate that people are still taking the time and trouble to offer suggestions.

    I guess the difficulty I have in subscribing to the "light leak theory" is that no other film I have ever used in this camera has shown similar problems; if there were such a problem, I'd expect to have been manifest before, and I would also have expected an issue with the entire reel. I would also rather have expected that the actual image areas would show evidence of a leak.

    As it is, it's the first 9 frames only, all image areas are OK, and the explanation given to me regarding the spiral edges seems to fit well.

    However, of course, as georg16nik says ... "everything is possible"
     
  17. Rafal Lukawiecki

    Rafal Lukawiecki Subscriber

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    If the canister/cassette were the source of a minor leak, the entire roll should not be affected, just the outer or innermost section, which is what led me to think of it in your case.
     
  18. albada

    albada Member

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    I had an old Yashica rangefinder camera that did this on one side only, and I eventually figured out the cause. Notice that the light leaks are (1) have sharp edges, and (2) look like projections of the plastic surrounding the sprockets. In my Yashica, when the camera was angled correctly, light would sneak past the rewind-release button on the bottom, in the inside mechanism, and bounce out of the gap between sprocket and surrounding metal. In your case, I suspect light was entering the lens at the correct angle, sneaking over and coming out the sprocket/surround gap. That would explain why it's only on a few frames, and why it looks like fogging and not lack of development. Look again at the areas around the sprocket holes: Those were caused by sharp-edged light hitting the film. I think that could only be due to light coming through the sprocket-cutout in the camera.

    Mark Overton
     
  19. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    From the Adox web site, CHS 35mm and 120 films are coated onto clear 100 micron PET. Light piping is a definite possibility. This film should always be loaded in subdued light.