DeVere Closed Loop System 5108

Discussion in 'Darkroom Equipment' started by rubenmg, Oct 3, 2010.

  1. rubenmg

    rubenmg Member

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    Hello,

    I want to use my DeVere 5108 with color head filters, (usually I use Ilford filters).

    I haven´t manual or instructions of closed loop system. My problem is:
    If i want to filter #4, for example, I introduce the amount of M necesary. But when I turn of, filters are placed to zero, and only moved again, when light is turn on.

    Is there some metod to prevent the filters move to turn off the enlarger?
    Is there some metod to move filters with enlarger ligth off?

    Thank you,

    Regards,
    Ruben
     
  2. Jesper

    Jesper Subscriber

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    Maybe I misunderstand the description, but I have a 5108 with colour head and the filters only move when I move them.
    As long as I don't turn the dials they will remain in the same positions.

    I have however, a printed manual and if you are interested I can scan it for you.
    It will take some time to scan so maybe someone else got it as a pdf, but if not I will scan it for you.

    Jesper
     
  3. rubenmg

    rubenmg Member

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    Hello Jesper and thank you for your answer.

    Are your DeVere the closed loop system? That is, filters move by hand or by motor?

    Ruben
     
  4. Jesper

    Jesper Subscriber

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    Filters move by hand.

    You got the other version?
     
  5. rubenmg

    rubenmg Member

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    :sad: Yes, mine is closed loop system and it´s probably that your enlarger is dychromat system.

    In my enlarger filters move by motor througth display.

    Thank you, regards,

    Ruben
     
  6. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    I'm very familiar with all the workings of the Omega closed loop system. Yes they need the lamp to be on to make any adjustment. The omega does NOT move them to zero when the lamp is off, but I don't know if this is normal with your system.

    Is there a delay when making the exposure for the filters to go back to position? Why do you think it is not working correctly. What exactly is the problem? Why would you need the filters in position with the lamp off?

    Also, try using the combined M and Y settings listed on the Ilford website. You should be able to get even exposures between contrast settings, just like the Ilford filter set.
     
  7. Tom Kershaw

    Tom Kershaw Subscriber

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    Ruben:

    During next week you might to try calling:

    Lightwave: +44 1959 570281 (mail@lightwaveservicing.co.uk)

    Odyssey Sales: +44 1273 676768 (john@de-vere.com)

    Tom
     
  8. rubenmg

    rubenmg Member

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    I never used this system, and my DeVere had a circuit modification for to introduce an Analyser pro in system. Turn on and turn off is with Analyser, but filters move with DeVere display.

    Yes there is. When light turn on filters start to move to chosing position.
    The problem is that if I start to print a copy, the first few seconds would be white light until the filter is put in position.
    For the same reason

    Thank you very much!!!

    Ruben
     
  9. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    OK, I see the problem now. I looked at your web page and saw that Analyzer pro, but thought that was for a different enlarger, as I would think it was not compatable with the Devere closed loop.

    I guess the previous owner figured out (maybe) how to integrate the two systems.

    To diagnose this problem I'd try to see if the Devere system works by itself. So, how does the Analyzer pro hook into the Devere? Can it be disconnected?
     
  10. rubenmg

    rubenmg Member

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    [​IMG]

    This is modification for introduce Analyser Pro.
     
  11. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Hmm...I don't think it is a good idea to control the lamp like that on a closed loop system. I suspect the prior owner make that hookup. If you ask me, a design like that will make the system do just what you are experiencing. If the head and display are powered up but the lamp is shut off by the Analyzer Pro, then it can't set any values. It needs the light.

    So, my opinion is that its not going to work correctly wired like that.
     
  12. Robert Hale

    Robert Hale Member

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    Hi Ruben

    I second ic-racer’s opinion that this looks a very odd arrangement.

    On the basis that “Devere original” drawing is correct, I would have tried taking the cable labeled “line and filters” from the output side of the transformer as normal and then finding the lamp wires and putting them through the “Analyser Pro” But –But before doing that I would email Richard at RHDesgins and ask what he knows about this setup. If Richard has no experience with this particular Devere then talk to – email the Devere guys.

    Regards

    Rob
     
  13. Robert Hale

    Robert Hale Member

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    Hi ic-racer

    Thought – if one puts an independent timer ( Analyser Pro ) in the circuit then how is the closed loop going to work or put it the other way round if the closed loop is working and metering the light values then why do we need the independent timer ??

    OK so I am dumb and it is the sort of thing I might try so as to be able to do split grade printing but on thinking it through one would need to have manual control of the filters or “white only” and use under lens type filtering.

    I wonder what Richard will come up with ?

    Best Regards

    Rob
     
  14. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Your thoughts are correct.

    I'm pretty sure there is a timer in the DeVere control panel. I'd just do everything through that like its supposed to work.

    I'd not use the AnalyzerPro and I'd not do split grade. But if one wanted to, you could swing the red filter under (or lenscap) when you make the filter change (because the light needs to be on to change the settings on the control panel) . Then do the second exposure.

    The closed loop concept is pretty useless with split grade printing anyway. The advantage of the closed loop system with B&W multigrade printing is the ease of setting and reproduction of your combined Yellow and Magenta values. I don't have closed loop on my 8x10 enlarger and I have to get up on a ladder to twist the dials, so filter control through the keyboard is another big advantage on an 8x10 enlarger :smile:

    I am envious of Ruben's system and I'd certainly put it back to is original form if I had it.
     
  15. rubenmg

    rubenmg Member

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    Hello,
    first, excuse me for my explanations, my english isn´t good and my electrical knowledge neither.

    When I bought DeVere closed loop system was ok, but I had a led cold light head and I adapted this to DeVere. I used Analyser with cold light head and I was a happy man :smile: Unfortunately led head died, and I was in the middle of exhibition production. I had not money for change leds head and I decided to use DeVere original diffusse light. The problem now was Analyser. I contacted with Richard and I explained to him my idea, but this system is not compatible. I used Ilford filters always, I don´t liked work with color heads. I didn´t care breaking the loop :blink: because I only need light, Ilford filters and my Analyser calibrate.

    As of today, I finished my exhibition and I started to think to complete the modification for , in a future, can to use original color head. Then, I discover the famous "closed loop system". I need to cancel light sensor of this system for only put colour values in console and to start filters motors independently light. But not total cancel for can calibrate filters some time. This is the problem now...

    I don´t want to lose Analyser in my work system and head filters is just a desire to have a more complete enlarger.

    Thank you very much for your help, some idea?

    Best Regards,

    Ruben
     
  16. Robert Hale

    Robert Hale Member

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    Hi Ruben,

    I think I have an understanding of where you are at and will think it through, but I have a lot of grass to mow and a son’s fortieth birthday coming, up so it may be after the weekend before I have any sensible ideas.
    Question: now you have the exhibition over, are thinking of repairing the led head ?

    Regards

    Rob
     
  17. Robert Hale

    Robert Hale Member

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    Hi ic-racer,

    I knew there must be a good reason not to envious of your 8 x 10, huumm ladders and filters ??? at least I only have to stand up to reach the 138 CLS 300 filters and, and and although it was quite painful ( writing the program ) I can now drive the AC 901 from a laptop via the parallel port (- - skiting including the filters ).

    If you have not tried split grade printing be aware that it can be a very useful tool. I seem to be using it more and more, come on tell the truth I have printed, only split grade for the last two and half months ( the better the negative the better the print ).

    Regards

    Rob
     
  18. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Yes that few extra inches of negative (5x7 to 8x10) translates into a few more FEET of extra height!
    I am grateful to have many of the hard-to-find Durst items, but the CLS head I got came from an enlarger used for horizontal projection, so I don't have the hang-down extensions :sad:

    With respect to the original problem here, I'd consider selling the working closed loop head to someone what wants that kind of system and get some other head that works with the Analyzer Pro.
     
  19. Robert Hale

    Robert Hale Member

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    Hi Ruben,

    Why don’t you use the analyzer part of the Analyser Pro to find your best exposure and then transfer the displayed time to the Devere control system ? If I am right this will give you full benefit of the closed loop and the analysis of the Analyser Pro resulting in very repeatable prints.

    Regards

    Rob
     
  20. rubenmg

    rubenmg Member

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    Thank you all for answer.

    ic-racer: I appreciate your advice, but is imposible for me change this head now. Besides, like I said I worked always with Ilford filters and Analyser is calibrated now and results are very good.

    Robert: I thought about it before I modificated system. In that moment I discovered "closed loop" concept. What are those benefits that you say? Thank you.

    Regards,

    Ruben
     
  21. Robert Hale

    Robert Hale Member

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    Hi Ruben

    “ Closed Loop” I have not worked with the Devere closed loop system so I am making an assumption based the general principal of closed loop systems, which means that the light your print receives should be a constant quantity of luminance in term of lumens, regardless of the fluctuations of the electric current. Very few power supplies are as good the suppliers would have us believe and a closed loop controlled system is one answer to this problem.

    Regards

    Rob
     
  22. rubenmg

    rubenmg Member

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    Thank you for your explanation Robert,

    Regards,

    Ruben