Digital Industrial Lightmeters - Lots of models and use at MF

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by Mustafa Umut Sarac, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    I need a lightmeter for 517/16 Zeiss Ikon Nettar and I bought the camera for 30 dollars. I am surfing the net and I dont know how old they were , Weston Light Meters goes from 60 dollars. I found many new digital lightmeters at architecture, surveying and construction people online shops. They advertise like 20 000 lux. I dont know what is lux or candela and how to transform them in to camera use. They come with a moon dome and I dont know it is good for MF Format Photography also.

    If anyone shed some light, I would be grateful.

    Thank you,

    Umut
     
  2. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    Mustufa, lux, candela et al not relevant for practical, uncomplicated photography, just EV scale, aperture, shutter speed, iso adjustment, and maybe (if using flash a lot) split balance/ambient flash. In terms of pricing, a second hand Weston meter could be had for $30, but it would probably benefit from being thoroughly checked out if it is looking quite old. I personally will not buy second hand meters under any circumstance.

    The "moon dome" is called an invercone. It distributes/diffuses light evenly onto the very sensitive photocell lurking below. It is used for incident and reflective metering, but not at all for spot metering (for those meters that offer spot metering).

    Not sure what you have come across referring to a digital lightmeter for surveying? Or how something that is good and proper for surveying might be just as useful for photography.
     
  3. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Garyh, I dont know the reason of there were hundreds of lightmeters are sold at surveying sites here. And why they advertise them as 20000 lux. May be architects, surveyors shoot digital pictures of the works and needed a real lightmeter, I have no idea. They are cheap , big and complicated and I did not see one except internet.

    Its 8 AM , Still surfing and I dont know how these sleepless nights ends .

    Thank you,

    Umut
     
  4. EASmithV

    EASmithV Member

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  5. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    I believe candela = foot candles, which is a measurement that old light meters used to use, then convert that to EV which then converts to shutter/aperture values. Usually this is all displayed and really all you have to do is match the reading to the shutter/aperture levels.

    Meters haven't changed much, just got electronic.


    ~Stone

    The Important Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  6. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    EASmith,

    They go for around 40 dollars. That Gossen is 140 dollars and cash. I can buy 40 dollars one with monthly payments of 4 dollars if I could be sure its usable for me. I dont go to the city center more than 2 times a year and I am connected to everything via screen. So I cant check it .

    Umut
     
  7. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Stone,

    Thank you very much.

    Umut
     
  8. EASmithV

    EASmithV Member

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    A good light meter is always a good investment.
     
  9. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Yes, agree but happy, unangry sister and mother is a good investment also :smile:

    Umut
     
  10. Vaughn

    Vaughn Subscriber

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    I imagine that these industrial meters are designed to measure the ambient light in a room or other space, testing different lighting in workspace -- I am sure that there are building or safety codes for the amount of light required in a workspace. If the dome is permanent, the meter can be used as an incident light meter, but probably not as a reflective light meter.

    If 20,000 Lux is the upper limit it can test, then the meter may not be very good for photography. Looking at the back of my Luna Pro SBC, I see that 22,000 Lux at ASA50 would be about f16 at 1/15th Sec (EV 12...or f8 at 1/60th)...if that is any help at all...and if I am reading it right!

    I just looked on line at some of the industrial light meters, and they have a range of 0 to 20,000 Lux. Some are measured in foot candles (2000 ft candles is about 22,000 Lux). Some measure from 0 to 50,000 Lux...and as the price goes up, some meter 0 to 400,000 Lux...which is pretty good (4+ stops higher than 20,000), still not as high as most photographic lightmeters.

    You get what you pay for! There are some good online charts for determining exposure without a meter.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2012
  11. Mr Bill

    Mr Bill Member

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    I think this Kodak info will roughly connect lux to an exposure, although I didn't try to work it out.

    http://www.kodak.com/cluster/global/en/consumer/products/techInfo/am105/am105kic.shtml

    I don't know about surveyors, but inside of buildings, there are standard guidelines for light levels at various workstations, as well as regulated minimums in hallways, stairwells, etc. So it's a common industrial thing to verify light levels. The meters I've seen used are typically incident type, with a flat diffuser. They would be placed on a desk surface or the like. I think the kodak document implies that such a meter, intended for visual purposes, may not necessarily agree with an exposure meter, especially under different types of light. I'd personally rather have an exposure meter.
     
  12. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    I think solution is to find a cheap camera with lighmeter. I will use classifieds. Thank you Vaughn and Bill. I cant pay more than 25 dollars cash, and European sellers are better for shipping prices.

    Thank you all , I wish that thread works for others also.
     
  13. Mr Bill

    Mr Bill Member

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    Hmmm...
    I just tested my link, and it doesn't seem to work. It's on the Kodak website, titled Estimating Luminance and Illuminance With Reflection-Type Exposure Meters and an 18% Neutral Test Card, it's publication AM-105KIC • October, 1999.
     
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  15. Craig Swensson

    Craig Swensson Member

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    :laugh:one of the best replies i`ve seen here for a while.

    PS. a sheperd DM 170 is a usefull cheaper light meter
     
  16. EASmithV

    EASmithV Member

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    there are also plenty of free light meter apps out there if you have a device that can run them.

    I've tested them against my Sekonic and they are accurate, in good light.
     
  17. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Craig, I looked to Sheperd 170 and it is 80 pounds makes 120 dollars.!!! A good 4 meter boat plan is 200 dollars and fiberglass costs 300 dollars. I watched a documentary about people who escaped to South Med coast of Turkey , man said I am living in the photograph why would I want to take it !!!!!! If I find 500 dollars , I would build the boat and set sail to Antalya , no photography anymore. I am taking photographs to carry the scene to my dim room , If I would be able to live there , I would never invest in photography anymore.
     
  18. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    EASmith , it would be lovely to have gadgets but I have noone called me from the phone more than 5 times in 20 years
     
  19. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    Mustafa, my boy, don't be so tragic! You shall NOT leave photography. Put money, heart and soul into it. Decorate the house with the beauty you see around you in Turkey (now don't go givin' me bull that Turkey isn't beautiful: my professor is over there for 6 weeks on leave with his young daughter and will come back with a stunning visual record, albeit a digital one...). Don't get all sweaty and break out in warts because of the cost of a meter. Guess the exposure. You aren't going to be flogged if you get it wrong.

    PS: If you do find $500, please PM me. Thanky! :smile:
     
  20. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

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    Just a thought:

    Price, the cost of printing two sheets of text.
    http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm

    No I'm not kidding.

    With practice this is a very workable option because, believe it or not, the lighting in any given situation is very stable.

    Practice and judgement are the keys.

    I have buddies that do this with slide film all the time. That's not my first choice but they seem to make nice pictures.

    Pros, like wedding photographers for example, find and use certain settings in certain situations without question or metering.

    Some practical examples.

    The lighting in your home, place of work, place of worship, street lights, city scapes, window light with given lighting outside, beach scenes, sunsets... are all normal situations where the numbers can be memorized or written down as your norms, as has been done in the ultimate exposure computer tables.

    I do like using meters, they are valuable tools, but I also use negative films where my practice and testing has taught me that 2-stops over or 1-stop under exposure won't give me any problem at my prints.

    Part of my choice to use negative film is so that I can set the camera once for any given situation, say a walk with the dogs, and shoot in any direction without any more thought about exposure. This makes it easy to use my Holga or my F5. This is the principle disposable cameras use too.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't get a meter or strive for accurate settings that fit your needs, just saying there are options that with practice can actually work every bit as well as metering.
     
  21. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Thank you Garyh, I will.

    Mark,

    Novar is very special lens since I love triplet Cooke on my Polaroid 350 and Triotar on Rollei's. Its a 3 element lens and I believe fourth element blur the scene and gives a more alien sharpness. Sharpness is less and acutance is more with Tessar lens. But tessar's 4th glass gives a 3 dimensional - not bokeh - muscle details , Tessar is for people , Triplets are for panaroma. Triplets are good for lines like poles to grass , better for texture like an old cut stone buildinng and rust like textures and the windows , doors , lines on the building , repeating patterns at the roof etc. Triplets I believe is the closest thing for 1950s factory, product photographs of German magazines. Lack of black , lack of white. Pure mid tone.

    After following this lens for 2 years , finally I bought it.

    And now I want to give what it deserves. Because it is very sensitive and I want to use the lens at its best , not darker , not lighter , as the designer calculates. I am using my 6th Leica and all used from experience on light. There are few good pictures at the gallery

    Thanks,
    Umut
     
  22. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    Just a word of caution about the old Weston meters - there's a reason they're cheap. It will vary widely from meter to meter, but many of them are using old selenium cells and they are no longer reliable. Any individual meter you may find may be in good working order, or it may be accurate only in relatively bright daylight, or it may be totally insensitive to light. The only way to determine that is to have the meter in your hands and test it. You can easily spend the price of a new electronic meter buying bad or inaccurate Weston meters trying to save a couple of dollars. Not to mention the wasted film. Four or five rolls of slide film and processing and presto, you've just paid for your meter!
     
  23. andrew.roos

    andrew.roos Subscriber

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    Hi Umut

    There is a conversion chart from Lux and Candela to EV at http://www.sekonic.com/Support/EVLuxFootCandleConversionChart.aspx. If you search "Exposure Value" on the web you should find out how to set the aperture and shutter speed to get a particular EV reading.

    KEH (www.keh.com) has a wide range of used light meters at prices that go down to under US$ 20 - for example an Adorama Analog Meter in EX ("Excellent") condition for US$ 17. I don't know what shipping would cost to your location, though.

    Andrew
     
  24. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

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    Umut I understand the want to be accurate. I'm not suggesting you lower your standards.

    What I'm suggesting is that rules like "sunny 16" and exposure tables like those that used to come with every roll of film and the ultimate exposure computer are very accurate, every bit as accurate as a meter. Accurate enough even for working with slide film.

    Tables and meters both require building a bit of experience so that you can understand what they are telling you and how to translate that to camera settings.

    Neither intrinsically eliminate exposure errors.
     
  25. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Mustafa, there are three affordable light meters available new. I'd not mess with a used light meter unless you have a way to check and calibrate it.
    The new meters available are Seconic L208, Gossen Digisix and Voigtlander VC speedmeter. All are less than $150 USD.
     
  26. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Thank you Flying Council, Andrew, Mark again and ic racer.

    Wonderful ideas but I can only pay by monthly payment. I know in USA and Europe , everything works with cash but nobody have cash in their pocket here. Homes, cars to bread to lemon goes with credit card and minimum monthly payment.

    Keh is extremelly cheap but when it comes to their UPS , it starts from 65 dollars here. I think I must listen Mark and read and use his text. He is very experienced and not to listen him is foolish.

    I am downgrading my ideals and learn to live with DIY errors. Its winter time , there is %30 increase in gas prices and we pay 180 dollars a month. It sucks the money really. Our salary and use goes neck to neck.

    Now its time to find 120 film online in Istanbul. I have D76 from canadian friend , I even forgot his name and fixer.

    I will post the results in two weeks.

    Thank you very much Everyone ! You are great!

    Umut