digital negatives?

Discussion in 'APUG.ORG's "Gray" Area Subforum -NOW HYBRIDPHOTO.C' started by michaelsalomon, Apr 3, 2005.

  1. michaelsalomon

    michaelsalomon Member

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    Im itching to give this a shot, looks like some great stuff can be done with digital negs - any suggestions on what I would use to output the digi negative on? I have a canon i9900 for my color work, what kind of transparecy is good for a digi neg?

    thanks in advance,
    Mike
     
  2. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

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    First and formost the best thing you could do, is post your message in the correct area, there is an alternative area for asking questions of this nature.

    Dave
     
  3. jovo

    jovo Membership Council Council

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    Olympus Pictorico Pro High Gloss Film comes highly recommended for inkjet printers. Check it out at Olympus.com. You'll need to get one of the several books on making digital negatives to learn the process. Dan Burkholder.com has lots of info on this topic. So does Mark Nelson's site...you can google his site; I don't know the url.
     
  4. Loose Gravel

    Loose Gravel Member

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    Also info at unblinkingeye.com
     
  5. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

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    Just a couple of notes before you get started:

    The canon printer won't work for UV processes (I don't know about silver gelatin printing) as the inks don't block enough UV light. I know this from personal experience.

    Instead of the pictorico, use the photowarehouse.biz UltraClear transparancy film. It is about 1/4 of the price and works just as well.

    Finally, you need to post in the Gray Area of Apug under the alternative processes forum.


    SEAN: can you please move this post?
     
  6. michaelsalomon

    michaelsalomon Member

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    hey dave, thanks for being so helpful.

    maybe i should have put digital negatives for CONTACT PRINTING
    but i figured it was pretty much implied that a digital negative is for the purpose of CONTACT PRINTING

    but, hey my mistake - i'll be sure to look for the correct area to post next time....
     
  7. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

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    Mike,
    Dave is correct, there is an area specifically for digital negatives. You can find it under the forum: Alternative Processes
     
  8. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

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    Michael,

    I was not being nasty, negative or anything, but suggesting that you may have better luck posting your question in the correct area. now if you wish to have the wrath of apug, decend on your being, then so be it for me to do anything to stop it..

    your choice.

    Dave
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 3, 2005
  9. Digidurst

    Digidurst Subscriber

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    Michael, I have to apologize for my APUG compatriots... You see, they fear that this site is the only digital-free zone left on the net and as such, they get a little testy when they hear... well... the d-word. Generally, they are darn nice folks, until someone unsuspecting soul utters... the d-word.

    Now, on to your question... You might want to check out (as previously suggested) Dan Burkholder's site with particular interest towards the Inkjet Companion. It's fantastic! But Dan does utilize Epson printers so you're kind of on your own in that regard. There's also Precision Digital Negatives which I've heard is also great but it's a $75 ebook so I haven't had personal experience with it. Olympus OHP Transparency film is what I use and I've had great luck with it. But since Jeremy was so kind to point out what he uses, I intend to give it a try as it is much less expensive than the OHP stuff. Thanks Jeremy!!

    Side Question: Has anyone tried the inkjet papers offered by photowarehouse.net? I'd be interested to hear your opinions. Please do feel free to PM me if you like. Thanks and good luck Michael!
     
  10. Bob F.

    Bob F. Member

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    Michael, you are new around here. Dave is correct: some will take considerable exception to digital enlargement questions not in the correct forum, indeed, would rather not have them at all, anywhere... Only your newness to APUG will save you! :wink:

    Good luck, Bob.
     
  11. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

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    Dont apologize for me, I have known Dan Burkholder for many years and knew about digital negatives before anybody here, nothing against digital but you are correct, we want this site free of digital talk, and as a matter of fact your question about digital papers is also out of line. Ask it in the gray forum or somewhere else.
     
  12. Digidurst

    Digidurst Subscriber

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    Jeez! I guess my tongue-in-cheek attempt at making Michael feel a bit less like the AGUG community jumped on his case was taken a bit more dramatically than intended.

    However, with the digi-fotogs constantly taking aim at film users, I would think that APUG would be a little more tolerant of people and not so quick to judge others harshly for how they decide to go about their imaging processes. I stand corrected - excuuuuse me!
     
  13. sanking

    sanking Member

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    Mike,

    If you are really interested in learning about digital negatives let me suggest that you take your questions and discussions on the subject to the alt-photo-process list serve. Both Mark Nelson and Dan Burkholder respond to questions frequently on that forum, along with many other persons with extensive knowlege about making digital negatives.

    And don't worry about asking a question on the alt-photo-process list about making silver prints with digital negatives if that happens to be what you are interested in. Even though the focus of the alt-photo-process list is about alternative photography it is considered perfectly acceptable to discuss virtually any aspect of photography.

    The alt-photo-process list goes back to the early 1990s and there is a very extensive archive you can search at http://www.usask.ca/lists/alt-photo-process/.

    You will find extensive discussions about digital negatives on the alt--photo-process list beginning in the earliest archives, which date from 1994. There was a recent discussion on the list on the subject of the first use of digital negatives, and while consensus appears to be that while no one really knows exactly when it all began the fact is that the use of digital negatives by alternative photographers was already quite wide-spread as early as 1990 and 1991. I personally made quite a number of carbon prints with imagesetter negatives as early as 1992, and to the best of my recollection my colleague Sam Wang and his students were making three-color gum prints from digital negatives well before then.

    Sandy King
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2005
  14. reinierv

    reinierv Member

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    actually this is a combined worlds question...create digital negatives to create a historic print. So I see no problems with tghis question

    I have been testing pictorio OHP some time ago. It gives fairly good results but is no match against well developped Tmax. In the mid-range the tones tend to flatten out, loosing detail while the contrast on both ends of the spectrum are higher (using Dan Burkholders approach/curves). You may solve this by improving curves, but it will be a hell of a job (I tried but had only minor improvements). I was more satisfied with Epson backlight paper but this has a huge base fog so you will have long exposre times. Beside the mid-tones pictorio was very sensitive for scratches and damages, my printer (R200) wheels left clear marks that were visible on the contact print. I decided to stick to Tmax and in occasions where I want to make a Pd print from e.g 35mm or 6x6 or digital use Epson backlight.

    Base fog= level of transparency of the sheet
    Blacks = the level of the blacks
    smoothnes = comparable with grain
    ruggedness = quality, is it easily damaged.

    base fog |blacks |grey levels| smoothness| ruggedness

    Acco ++ | + | +/- | - | +

    Pictorio + | +/++ | +/- | +/++ | -

    Backlight -- | +/++ | +/++ | +/- | +

    Tmax ++ | ++ | ++ | ++ | +

    Conclusion
    Tmax is almost fully transperent in the dark areas, compared to the others
    The density of the white area's (black on the neg) is closely matched by Pictorio and Backlight comapred to Tmax
    The mid-tones are best captured by Tmax, although backlight gets it close
    Although the backlight paper has quite some grainness due to the construction, it is not vissible on a 5x7 print, That of Acco is visible
    It is hard to get an undamaged pictorio print from an unmodified printer like the R200/R300. You can remove wheels from the printer, it will void you guarentee, and may make the printer dedicated to this work as the sheets will most likely not be as flat and well transported
    Acco is unusable due to the grainness and low quality
     
  15. michaelsalomon

    michaelsalomon Member

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    apology for posting in the wrong area (sort of)

    I posted in the wrong area...my apologies to everyone.

    but anyone who gets uptight....have a drink and relax, im not here to convert everyone to digital for christs sake, just a question regarding something i'd like to try.

    in any event, I do appreciate the help fro everyone who offered an opinion.

    Mike
     
  16. peanut

    peanut Member

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    Hi there,

    I am currently working through Mark Nelson's Precision Digital Negative system with the intention of using it for silver darkroom prints and will be posting a complete experience report soon. I just made my last calibration silver print and am just about ready to contact silver print an actual image. The system is working fine, but so far I am a little worried about "graininess" of the step palettes when printing on silver paper, but this may not be a problem once I print an image. I will make a new post probably in the next few days.

    Cheers!
     
  17. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

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    Peanut, that's great as I just use it for alt processes but would like to know more about it for silver. Please start a new post and share!