Digital negs for argyrotype

Discussion in 'APUG.ORG's "Gray" Area Subforum -NOW HYBRIDPHOTO.C' started by gwatson, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. gwatson

    gwatson Member

    Messages:
    146
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Location:
    Windsor, UK
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi all

    I need to produce a dig neg and am completely confused by the research I have done. Argyrotype is a low contrast print which requires high contrast/high density negs. Right? However, all the advice I am getting in producing the neg requires me to apply a curve to the positive scanned image that reduces the contrast. Now this does produce a more dense neg once inverted, but also one that is low contrast.

    To me this seems wrong. Do I not need to increase the contrast of the positive before inverting it? I know this is a suck it and see situation, but I'm just looking for a starting point. Can anyone help?

    Many thanks

    Geoff
     
  2. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    9,281
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Location:
    Bergen, Norw
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I'll move this to the Grey Area, where the experts on digital negs reside.
     
  3. gwatson

    gwatson Member

    Messages:
    146
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Location:
    Windsor, UK
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks Ole. I was just looking to see if I could transfer it myself.

    Geoff
     
  4. sanking

    sanking Member

    Messages:
    4,813
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Location:
    Greenville,
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    First, what previous advice have you gotten?

    Making a digital negative with inkjet printers involves two steps. One step is to choose a printing color (black, green, green + blue, etc.) that matches the contrast of the process, in this case argyrotype. This varies a lot according to printer. Mark Nelson's PDN system explains how to do that, but much too complicated to relate all of the procedures here.

    Second step is to print a negative on your printer from Photoshop using the color selected and then maping the input and output values to produce a correction curve.

    As a easier way that may give good results, down-load one of the curves on Dan Burkholder's website, assuming you are using the same printer. Unfortunately, printers vary a lot in terms of UV absorbance so you really need to be using one of the printers for which Burkholder provides curves to expect good results.

    Sandy King
     
  5. gwatson

    gwatson Member

    Messages:
    146
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Location:
    Windsor, UK
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi Sandy

    Thanks for the reply.

    I had read an article that claimed you no longer needed to colourise negs in this day and age. I did not know that the colour determined the density of the neg. Confused my poor weak brain!

    I have done a bit of digging and have a starting point. I will use green (r25, g50, b0) and have a curve. The curve is for a different printer, but it's a start. (Long live film:smile:)

    Thanks again.

    Geoff
     
  6. jimcollum

    jimcollum Member

    Messages:
    127
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2005
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    while not necessary, the color can produce a better image. I had been using black only negatives from my Epson 7600 for a while. There was always a problem with graininess in smooth midtones (pt/pd prints). I calibrated based on Mark's PDN method, and ended up with a green negative, and the graininess disappeared. Tonal range was still identical... between the two methods.. but i feel i get a better quality images and smoother tones with PDN
     
  7. gwatson

    gwatson Member

    Messages:
    146
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Location:
    Windsor, UK
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks Jim

    I know that if I want to produce good dig negs, I will have to do it properly. I have messed about with the curve and have had half decent results, but until I have the time and the money to get a new printer (old HP at mo), I'll lay off and use the usable film negs I have. Thanks for your reply.

    Geoff
     
  8. sanking

    sanking Member

    Messages:
    4,813
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Location:
    Greenville,
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Most people making digital negatives with printers are using Epson. However, even some of the lower end printers that cost less than $100 are capable of making good digital negatives so expense is not a major issues. Of course, you will be limited to letter size negatives with these inexpensive printers.

    Sandy
     
  9. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,419
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto-Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    We are hoping to finalize a workshop with Sanky King and Mark Nelson to illustrate how to make enlarged Digital Negatives for Alternative printing via epson and hopefully Fujiclear on our Lambda.
    Sandy will then take the negs and show how to produce Platinum Prints from them.
    This workshop is slated for the first week in Dec 06. timing , prices and further details will be announced shortly.
    I think this dual workshop will be very informative due to the expert teachings of both Sandy and Mark. Our facilitys are set up to provide a comfortable and intimate learning experience.
    The goal is 4days over a weekend , very hands on with each student walking out with an enlarged platinum under their belts and the knowledge to continue producing this exciting kind of imagery.
     
  10. gwatson

    gwatson Member

    Messages:
    146
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Location:
    Windsor, UK
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks for your replies guys.

    Although I have a very old HP printer, I am amazed at the quality I am able to produce. Iamsure at some point I will address this again when time and resource are more plentiful: I have a long wish list!!

    The workshop sounds great. Living in the UK, my wife finds this somewhat unjustifiable however.

    Thanks again.

    Geoff