digital vs. film test on TV

Discussion in '35mm Cameras and Accessories' started by SilverGlow, Nov 22, 2008.

  1. SilverGlow

    SilverGlow Member

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    Interesting video...

    Interesting video. It's just a few minutes long. Watch it and comment please....

    http://fwd.five.tv/videos/challenge-blow-up-part-3

    For the record, I only shoot film for B&W pictures...

    I have to go now (he runs off into the distance....)....
     
  2. dances_w_clouds

    dances_w_clouds Subscriber

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    Well it was printed digitally. If it was done smaller with the film printed the way it should have been, it would be a better comparison. Bad way to compare.
     
  3. Akki14

    Akki14 Member

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    The Gadget show is rather crap. And how often do you make pictures that big? What film did they use to get that awful skin tone? Cheap Kodak Ultra or something? Meh. Definitely don't have the balls to show a proper comparison or give details on what they did.
     
  4. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    I thought it was interesting, if flawed.

    I know that if I was ever planning to have building sized prints made, I wouldn't choose either of the choices offered.

    It doesn't surprise me though that a top of the line full frame sensor Nikon would lead to more pleasant building sized prints than 400 ISO 35mm print film exposed, scanned and then printed to that size.

    Matt
     
  5. Poohblah

    Poohblah Member

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    I find it funny that they stated which camera they used for film (F5) but not which film they used...

    Furthermore, they tested a top-of-the-line small format digital body, but I'm assuming they used a 400 speed print film, which is nowhere near top-of-the-line for film...
     
  6. BetterSense

    BetterSense Member

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  7. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    This has been posted already. Please read the Forum before posting it again.
     
  8. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member

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    Threads merged. Maybe the second poster would have noticed, if the first poster had used a more descriptive title than "interesting video." I've merged them under the second title.
     
  9. MrMushroomMan

    MrMushroomMan Member

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    Sooo...digital to digital is better than Analog to digital? Who would have thunk it :rolleyes:
     
  10. Andy K

    Andy K Member

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    Wasn't this already discussed a few weeks ago? I recall someone saying it was not a digi-analogue comparison, but a digital - scanner comparison.
     
  11. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    I thinks so too. But . . .

    Wait, unless we were to know every step in the path with both processes it's an invalid comparison. There are ways to re-interpret and enhance an image regardless of the original source. In adition the RIP software used for those large images is extremely sophisticated, give it the right file you'll get the highest possible image quality.

    So two different companies should have been involved, instead we have the prejudices of one.

    Ian
     
  12. Michel Hardy-Vallée

    Michel Hardy-Vallée Membership Council

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    I think it's more of a hybrid v. all-digital question. I am also tempted to suggest that this is really a perfect topic for hybridphoto.com too...

    After the kind of film used, and the scanner employed, the big variable for me is the pre-press work. How much effort did they spend on either workflow to nail down their colours, retouch, etc.

    In my opinion, once the film is scanned, I don't see why they should not apply sophisticated digital colour correction, grain reduction algorithms, etc, to achieve the best picture they can.

    In this respect, I respect much more the stress test that Photo Engineer posted a while ago, comparing scanned film with a digital file. His conclusion was that you could push the scanned film much further than you could the digital camera image. It didn't say much about film v. digital, but at least it said something clear about scanned film v. digital.
     
  13. SuzanneR

    SuzanneR Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh my... I'm relieved to see that the idiot speak of television hosts is not confined to the U.S.
     
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  15. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member

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    The variables here make any conclusion silly. Even past that, it's a comparison of giant inkjet prints, files, scans, RIP's, workflow, and scanning technology. Try the same thing, but with an ikjet vs a cibachrome, and you'll see a completely different result. Apples and oranges anyway, but this is apples and mutant mars fruit. Should sell a crapload of junk for their sponsors though.
     
  16. nsouto

    nsouto Subscriber

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    Every time I see a tv show where the presenters have to twitch their bodies
    to pronounce words of more than two syllables, I get the "bull" alarm lights going full on...

    One of the many, many reasons why I do not watch tv. Waste of time and space.

    As others have noted: top digital camera, not even a mention of which film.
    And of course: "the shoe has a green tinge" is "proof" that digital is better.

    Amazing...
     
  17. Jungell

    Jungell Member

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    I can't say that I agree with the conclusion here. They used a top of the line proffessional digital camera, which is what most people would use for this kind of work, at the time this program was shot. Correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm still new to analogue photography. But wouldn't 60mm film be thay way to go, for this kind of work? So it can't have been fair.

    And as many of you has already stated, the inbetweens was not even touched. What you do with the photo between shooting and printing is just as important as taking the picture. The film will take a lot of damage in the process, if it's not done correctly. Scanning, converting, compressing etc.

    I do think that this shows that for the regular user, digital is probably the way to go. But for proffessional use, it's still not clear. Digital can never get the same feel and depth, tho.
     
  18. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Subscriber

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    It's not that good.


    Steve.
     
  19. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member

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    For this type of work, I would probably have chosen MF, but they were "trying" to be even, so they used a common lens on "sensors" of the same size. Even so, most commercial photographers would shoot chrome film for something like this, and being in the studio, would have used a much slower film. The extrapolation in upsizing the digital image gives it a distinct advantage in the process used for comparison. They chose an ISO speed and post process that accentuated the film grain and hid the DSLR's noise. Had they used a slow chrome film, and given the film the benefit of digital machinations, and compared that things would have been different. Horses for courses. Only an idiot would draw any conclusion from this kind of thing. Film vs. digital comparisons are inherently stupid. When somebody starts comparing them, especially if they are spitting out numbers, you can be pretty sure you're talking to an novice or a poser, and that's who eats this dreck up.
     
  20. Paul Goutiere

    Paul Goutiere Subscriber

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    There are just a few bits I don't like about the video. I felt a bit manipulated perhaps.
    -What and who did the scanning? Did I miss this?
    -Why did we not see the original film and why wasn't the scan discussed.
    -Who pays these people?
    -Why do I get so pissed off by this bullshit?
     
  21. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Subscriber

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    I think I said that but it was in the bicycles thread. I doubt that many people saw that. You posted that folding bicycles were being featured on that episode.



    Steve.
     
  22. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Subscriber

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    And that presenter, Jon Bentley... He's a robot right? Far too much movement and facial expression to be human!


    Steve.
     
  23. Andy K

    Andy K Member

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    If anyone would like to send them a critique of their testing techniques they can be emailed at thegadgetshow@five.tv
     
  24. Dan Henderson

    Dan Henderson Member

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    An unfair comparison to be sure, but I confess to being distracted by the Emma Peel costume.
     
  25. Michel Hardy-Vallée

    Michel Hardy-Vallée Membership Council

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    Good man. I did just that. Will post if anything comes back.
     
  26. Polybun

    Polybun Guest

    I'm calling bullshit and I haven't seen the results yet. It is a digital print in both cases, so you are limited by a CCD or a CMOS no matter what is done! Any drop in resolution is due to the lack of clarity in the negative scanner. BULLLLLSHIIIIITTTT