Dmax in Pt/Pd increased by wax - process details anyone?

Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by nick mulder, Apr 7, 2009.

  1. nick mulder

    nick mulder Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,204
    Joined:
    May 15, 2005
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Hello all,

    I was reading the wikipedia entry on Platinum printing which stated that the apparent Dmax of a Pt print could be increased by waxing or lacquering it...

    Sure I could rub a candle on my prints :wink: but does anyone have more detailed info on the two proceedures ?
     
  2. jslabovitz

    jslabovitz Member

    Messages:
    49
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Location:
    Shanghai, We
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I've not used this, but I just happened across this product the other day: Renaissance Wax. Maybe it would work for Pt/Pd?
     
  3. MVNelson

    MVNelson Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,198
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Location:
    North Florid
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    there's a technique for waxing Pt/Pd prints in Dick Arentz Book .... Platinum & Palladium Printing, 2nd edition , he writes about using Gamblin cold wax, stiff shoe brush and soft shoe brush . He says it can darken the blacks.

    Miles
     
  4. Kerik

    Kerik Member

    Messages:
    1,467
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2002
    Location:
    California
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    1) Reniassance Wax
    2) Wax On
    3) Wax Off
     
  5. nick mulder

    nick mulder Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,204
    Joined:
    May 15, 2005
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Perfect,

    Thanks for the infos :wink:

    I have some prints here that I think may benefit from a treatment, keen to try it...

    Nick
     
  6. photomc

    photomc Member

    Messages:
    3,575
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2003
    Location:
    Texas
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Have used the Krylon UV Spray and wax. Did not like either one any better than the look I get with just plain gelatin used to size paper for gum over platnium/palladium. Of course if you are using a paper suitable for gum why not just add a layer or two. :wink:
     
  7. nawagi

    nawagi Member

    Messages:
    80
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Place a chunk of bleached beeswax the size of a quarter on a plate. Heat in microwave until partially melted (some liquid and some soft wax). Remove and add 2 - 3 drops of lavender oil and mix into a creamy goo. Make a 2 small buffing pads out of a well-washed flannel shirt. Dip one pad into the waxy creme and apply to your print in a circular motion. Allow to set for a minute, then use the other pad to buff it out in a straight line motion. Never did this in plats. but it makes my salt prints DMax much deeper.

    NWG
     
  8. bowzart

    bowzart Member

    Messages:
    1,221
    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Location:
    Anacortes, W
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I use Trewax on my silver prints. It is a carnauba paste for floors, very tough. I can put it on mounted prints and you wouldn't even notice the wax that got on the board, but it does increase the depth and brilliance of the print. Since it is a tremendously tough film, it also protects the print from abrasion, just as it does the floor. I don't know whether it cuts UV. It would require more buffing than beeswax because it has a much higher melting point. I've tried beeswax and don't like it because it is too soft.

    I learned this in the mid 60's from Minor White, but I believe he used the similar Johnson's product. The important thing, I believe, is that the wax should be carnauba. These waxes are turpentine based; I don't know whether there is a product that uses a friendlier solvent.

    Clarence John Laughlin used to flow floor lacquer onto his prints. They were wonderfully rigid and glossy. No problem handling them, even unmatted. At a large gathering of students, he simply passed them around.
     
  9. deisenlord

    deisenlord Member

    Messages:
    481
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Minneapolis,
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I've made up wax with bleached beeswax and damar resin, supposedly this is what the old-timers used. Works well but the Reniassance Wax Kerik mentions was supposedly developed to replace this concoction by the British museum.
    Ike
     
  10. doughowk

    doughowk Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,766
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2003
    Location:
    Jacksonville
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've used Renaissance Wax on my regular fiber prints, and Agfa Sistan for alt process prints. Can the wax be used in combination with the Sistan, or should I use just wax for all?
     
  11. bowzart

    bowzart Member

    Messages:
    1,221
    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Location:
    Anacortes, W
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'm interested. I have an old booklet from the British Museum about the preservation of leather covered books, and in it there is a recipe for a wax that they used on leather. I'll dig it up and see what I can find. Might it be the same wax? I wonder.
     
  12. bowzart

    bowzart Member

    Messages:
    1,221
    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Location:
    Anacortes, W
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Found it, miraculously. For a while I feared that I might have put it somewhere so I wouldn't lose it, in which case i might not be able to retrieve it for several years. :smile:

    I doubt the formula is the right one. It contains lanolin, cederwood oil, beeswax and heptane. Wouldn't work on prints, I think. I'm sure it would be great where penetration is needed.
     
  13. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

    Messages:
    2,767
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. sanking

    sanking Member

    Messages:
    4,813
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Location:
    Greenville,
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Giving some sheen or shine to pt/pd prints seems to be the Holy Grail for some folks. I have tried all of the methods mentioned so far and none of them make enough difference to justify the trouble IMO. If you want shine, just put the prints in a frame behind glass and you will get plenty of it!!

    Sandy
     
  16. Don12x20

    Don12x20 Member

    Messages:
    236
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Location:
    Pacific Nort
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format

    Although I don't see the smilely faces, I can only presume you are joking Sandy (although I agree - I've tried it and the difference in dmax isn't worth the bother to me. As Arentz says - you'll never achieve the high dmaxs of a silver paper, so get used to it or switch to silver. Let the eye be fooled into accepting the dmax on Pt/Pd that you do achieve)

    They're not trying to make a shine, but change the surface characteristics. By changing the surface from a diffuse matte to something less difuse, they are going to achieve higher dmax. Its there on the paper already, you just can't see it.

    This effect was well know in even Silver paper -- you could get a higher dmax out of glossy paper compared to the exact same emulsion in a matte or semi-matte surface (pearl, etc back in the days when Kodak offered the same paper with different surfaces).

    this will work with most alt processes where the wax and solvents don't change the image chemically.

    On the subject of which wax:
    Sexton has used Renaissance wax for years on his already-glossy prints, particularly on his teaching prints (although his purpose is to extend the life of his teaching materials: to repair the minor abrasions that happen). So Renassance wax, with its microcrystalline structure should work similarly with Pt or Pd.
     
  17. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

    Messages:
    653
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Location:
    Istanbul, Tu
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi Sandy.

    Well, I have to disagree; my usage of Hydrocote Polyshield Clear Polyurethane exterior wood finish definitely adds sheen and most importantly dmax to prints -> and that's a considerable amnt. of dmax increase; at least a stop / visually... (BTW, I particularly don't care for the sheen -> but you have to have it if you need higher dmax, just like someone else described just before me.) The added bonus is to able to present the print w/o glazing; which is a much better experience. The wood finish perfectly seals the print surface rendering it impermeable - equally for gases and liquids. You can just wipe the surface with a moistened tissue when it gets dusty/dirty. Pretty practical.

    Regards,
    Loris.


     
  18. Don12x20

    Don12x20 Member

    Messages:
    236
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Location:
    Pacific Nort
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Loris
    Is the print brittle in this configuration? (hard gloss coat, which I presume to be a thin layer, on top of the print). Do you see much breakage on this thin sandwich, which I presume to be pretty rigid.
     
  19. nick mulder

    nick mulder Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,204
    Joined:
    May 15, 2005
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    This sounds like the most dedicated process for sure, it has that kind of 'ooh wow' gravitas of starting with basic ingredients and cooking it all up (next up is to search up on how to extract oil from lavender) ... in the meantime I have ordered some Renaissance Wax through a local swordsmith who calls himself 'wargod' (Hayden to his mom).

    Should be interesting :wink:

    from his site:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. clay

    clay Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,125
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Location:
    Asheville, N
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    If you print on vellum, you can dmax values approaching silver. I have a print made on Clearprint Vellum that has two layers of wax applied and buffed into it that has a measured dmax of 1.85. It helps to drymount the vellum print to a heavier sheet of paper before going to town with the wax.
     
  21. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

    Messages:
    653
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Location:
    Istanbul, Tu
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It isn't. You can bend / handle the print as you wish w/o any cracking and such... The dried finishing layer isn't that much thick - maybe slightly thicker than a sizing layer, and that's perfectly enough to diminish unnecessary reflections (which lowers dmax and contrast).

    Regards,
    Loris.


     
  22. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

    Messages:
    653
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Location:
    Istanbul, Tu
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Indeed, when I print on Masa paper (Japanese drawing paper - weight something like 80-90 gsm), the prints definitely look darker compared to others on say... COT 320 or Fabriano Artistico. The added bonus of Masa is to be able to put something colored behind, in order to manipulate the base hue between cool and warm. (Which has a considerable effect on the print...) The down side is -> working with Masa isn't easy because of its thinness.

    Regards,
    Loris.


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2009
  23. RobertP

    RobertP Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,130
    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    What's the trick to applying the wax without getting the noticeable swirl marks or lines from the wax? I could never get a nice completely smooth coat.
     
  24. clay

    clay Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,125
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Location:
    Asheville, N
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Warm wax in multiple thin coats. Also use old T-shirt material for buffing.
     
  25. RobertP

    RobertP Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,130
    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Clay, So is the heated wax applied with a soft cloth in circular motions? Or can the wax be heated to liquid form and then applied with a puddle pusher in one sweeping motion much like a layer of gum is applied? Thanks
     
  26. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

    Messages:
    653
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Location:
    Istanbul, Tu
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Application of gum (arabic?) with puddle pusher / glass rod!?

    It's the first time I hear something like that! Do you actually coat gum that way or was that a slip of the tongue? If you actually coat gum with a puddle pusher, I'd like to hear about your procedure -> sounds very interesting!

    Thanks,
    Loris.