Do color printing filters fade over time?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by swhitford, Nov 27, 2009.

  1. swhitford

    swhitford Member

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    I have a set of Ilfochrome printing filters that I've been trying to use for RA-4 printing. The filters are probably 20 years old or more.

    I'm using fresh Arista chemistry and fresh Fuji Crystal Archive paper, but having a heck of a time getting the color balance even close. I'm using a standard condenser light source in an old Omega ProLab enlarger. (GE PH211 bulb).

    I'm ending up with a filter pack around 0.2M and 0.2C (no Yellow) which seems very strange.

    Scott
     
  2. AlexG

    AlexG Member

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  3. mexico531

    mexico531 Member

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    It seems strange that you are having to use cyan for subtractive neg - pos printing. What colour casts are your prints showing?
     
  4. swhitford

    swhitford Member

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    Fred, the prints have a purple-ish cast.
     
  5. Anscojohn

    Anscojohn Subscriber

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    Answer to subject-line question.

    Yes.
     
  6. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Adding more - so do Variable Contrast filters.

    Ian
     
  7. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The old saying "these dyes, like all dyes, fade with time" is printed on every box of color material made by Kodak. Yes, the filters fade with time as well. Dichroic filters have a far lower tendancy to change if they change at all.

    However, your purple cast is unusual. There have been recent reports of Fuji CA II paper doing this and being hard to correct. It may be due to using the wrong chemistry or process times. CA II paper, introduced in 2006, uses a different developer and process cycle.

    PE
     
  8. fotch

    fotch Member

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    Is the fading a result of age or use? If a brand new set is stored in the box for a long time and not used, will it have faded anyway? Just curious.
     
  9. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Just as a print will fade in a box when stored, filters will also fade when stored in the box. Some filters fade more rapidly than others. The Kodak Wratten series used Azo dyes similar to those used in Ciba/Ilfochrome paper for some regions of the spectrum. These fade very very slowly.

    PE
     
  10. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    I would think that unless they were obviously faded to the naked eye, that they will work fine. If you are using trial-and-error, the actual grading of the filters doesn't matter, as long as they have all faded the same and you are not 'maxed out' on the highest filters. If you are using a color analyzer, you will still be able to select the 'correct' filter, irrespective of its original markings.
     
  11. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    For those who doubt the new Fuji Type II CA paper, I refer you to the article by Kazushi Yoshida et. al. in the proceedings of the ICIS, May 2006. In it, they state that new emulsions and couplers have changed the RA process requiring a different developer and process cycle. In the accompanying talk they specifically described Tellurium sensitization that gives the higher speed to the emulsion with better development rates.

    Since this report, I have seen repeated reports on APUG and PN similar to the OP. IDK if this is the reason, but I wish to bring it to your attention with facts to support my position.

    PE