Do you make same picture on both sides of the film holder?

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by jaimeb82, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. jaimeb82

    jaimeb82 Member

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    When you take a picture in a 4x5 system. Do you always flip the card holder and take the same picture as a back up?

    Do you then develop first one sheet and base on the results develop the other one base on first results? Is this a common practice one should get into?

    Thanks,

    Jaime.
     
  2. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    Yes, yes, and yes.
     
  3. rmann

    rmann Subscriber

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    Really depends on how hard it was to get to the location - if it is someplace I know I will not very likely return to I will make a second exposure. Also, if I have some reason to "distrust the meter" I will make a second using a different speed/f stop setting. Assuming I am not rationing film because of a "hike" or limited supply. I don't burn through film, but considering the time and effort it takes to set up for a shot, why save film?
     
  4. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

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    I have generally duplicated my images on both sides of the holder. However, on occasion, this is not always possible.
     
  5. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    most of the time,
    but even seconds later
    sometimes it isn't the same ...
     
  6. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    yes, and yes and it depends
     
  7. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Exceedingly rarely, maybe half a dozen times in 25 years :D I can't carry enough darkslides in my backpack or afford to waste 50% of my film :smile:

    It's not common practice with the photographers I know. I've rarely if ever lost important images because of this.

    Ian
     
  8. jp80874

    jp80874 Subscriber

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    Yes, yes, yes, but I bracket as much as two stops on the second shot. I am working on a series of (so far) 120 7x17 contact prints of the OH & Erie Canal and its environment through a national park, four rust belt cities and some farm land. There is much dark material and detail in them thar ramparts. I feel that I can make a pretty good contact print at least one stop off. A two stop bracket gives me a six stop range of pretty printable negatives. Most exposures are in the reciprocity range. If I find there is detail I want to bring out of the shadows, this bracketing and corrected development can give me quite a range of exposure for printing. Stuff does happen to the occasional negative usually through the operator getting too tired (almost 70 now). Developing two at a time in a Jobo is very slow. On the other hand the canal has not moved much since about the 1820s. This process has worked well for me though it seems to surprise many who hear of it.

    John Powers
     
  9. rphenning

    rphenning Member

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    not with color but yes with black and white. Right now I only shoot color so I haven't developed my own BW in a while but when I did develop my own I shot the same scene. It's up to you if you want to or not.

    Sheet film is expensive to me and I am confident enough to take different scenes with each piece of color film. Not saying the people ahead of me are not confident, it's just how I feel comfortable doing things.
     
  10. Mike1234

    Mike1234 Inactive

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    It's been a long time and I'm just now getting back into LF B&W but...

    ABSOLUTELY... and sometimes I would take another two at a different exposure as backup for when I wasn't sure how my filter was affecting exposure in some situations. I always processed the first sheet that I thought was exposed properly and at the dilution/time/agitation I thought was appropriate. If exposure was appropriate on the first neg then I tweaked my development methods (if necessary) and processed the second sheet. If I decided to use the other exposure I repeated the above procedure. The remaining film was processed (adjusted as needed) and kept as backup. The above stated, I tried to never shoot an image I wasn't absolutely sure I wanted. If I was just messing around I didn't waste film, chemistry or time so the above procedures weren't followed.

    Shooting extra film is expensive but losing a really nice image is more painful.

    EDIT: If shooting color negs I would shoot just two images both exposed the same. But I would have them processed at different times or different labs... stuff happens.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2009
  11. jmain

    jmain Member

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    Yes, Yes, Yes. There is some quantum physical effect where not shooting the same scene twice increases the probability of dust or a pin hole in the film to ruin the negative :smile:. There have been many times when I was thankful for shooting both sides of the holder on a scene.
     
  12. sevo

    sevo Member

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    My common procedure is be to make backups or bracket shots to another holder or holders, so that I can always safely unload each entire holder and develop to the same specs.
     
  13. snallan

    snallan Member

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    Very rarely. Perhaps if the light conditions are demanding, but not routinely.
     
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  15. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    It depends on how much film I have and how broke I am...but I do it if I can afford to, simply because I like having some backup. I do not bracket with 4x5 ever. Sometimes I will take different exposures just because I want the option of printing something a few different ways, but never bracketing to make sure I get a good exposure. I have the bad habit of bracketing with medium format roll film, actually, but not 35mm or 4x5. It is because I am often moving too fast for my own good with medium format. If I didn't have to, I would be using 4x5 instead!
     
  16. Vaughn

    Vaughn Subscriber

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    I use 8x10. If it is an important image -- usually two identical exposures. Film seems to be the cheapest expense I have on a photo trip. But I also have a heavy hand in pre-editing -- most of the images I take these day are "important". I don't usually take the effort to set the camera up for the unimportant images, and will take down the camera if what I see on the GG does not match (or better) how I felt about the image before I set the camera up.

    Also, I might decide to expose two negs of a scene so that I can develop them differently for different printing processes -- but mostly I'll expose two as cheap insurance.

    Vaughn
     
  17. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    Not always,
    No
    Not necessarily. Much depends on your confidence level and budget, as stated.
    However, regardless of your confidence there are a lot of things that can go wrong when using sheet film. That said, I genreally only do duplicates when I know the shot is special. Sometimes there is only one opportunity though, so it's best if your skills are up to it.
     
  18. Eric Rose

    Eric Rose Subscriber

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    Not since I stopped shooting stock photography. Back then I shot 3 images of everything, one for me, one for the agency and one for backup.

    These day I shoot mainly 4x5 and I could count on one hand the number I times I have shot a second image of the same scene.
     
  19. mmcclellan

    mmcclellan Subscriber

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    That's my practice, too -- the Fred Picker system of doing the even numbered side at N and the odd side at N+1, adjusting the exposure and development accordingly. This gives me a normal contrast and a slightly more contrasty neg so that a full range of contrasts can be printed covering a good four grades if you want to experiment that much. I often find that the N+1 neg is the best, but it never fails that one of the two negs will give a really good print so having the choice definitely pays off! And, if one of the negs is scratched or otherwise damaged, you can always make an acceptable print from the other neg.
     
  20. Christopher Walrath

    Christopher Walrath Member

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    Most times I will make either a different composition of the same subject or make myself find another subject close by, since I have gone to the effort of setting up in the first place. And there have been days where those two exposures are all I get. But seldom, if ever, will I make a mirror image unless I know FOR CERTAIN I missed it.
     
  21. EASmithV

    EASmithV Member

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    Nope... I am usually pretty confident on the first exposure...
     
  22. Bruce Watson

    Bruce Watson Member

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    When I was a newbie I did exactly this. Over time I shot a lot and got better. I got better at nailing the exposure. Got better at nailing the process. Got better at handling film and film holders. And I found that I was never using the backups.

    So I decided to work without a net. I now make exactly one exposure for just about all scenes. The exceptions are 1) motion, and 2) different apertures to control DOF. If I have any questions about either I'll make a second shot. But I process them all the same.

    There's nothing wrong with making the second exposure. If it's useful. But if it's just a security blanket, you out grow it eventually.
     
  23. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    And I was thinking it was just the British and Canadians who worked without that safety blanket :D

    I was taught that relying on your technique and skills no safety net actually helps hone them. It's different with commercial work but it means you tend to make alternative images rather than duplicates.

    Ian
     
  24. Bruce Watson

    Bruce Watson Member

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    Yes. Indeed it does.
     
  25. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    Sure, but once you're out of the classroom and concerned with real world issues like scratches and bugs and darkroom faux pas... :wink:

    There is indeed a lesson in trying to get it all done in one shot. But I have had backups save me many times. There is a lesson in that as well.
     
  26. Vaughn

    Vaughn Subscriber

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    I will also add that my printing process can be rough on negatives, so having an identical back-up neg can be nice.