# Do you think in DIN ?

Discussion in 'Exposure Discussion' started by Michel Hardy-Vallée, Jul 17, 2005.

## What is your film speed unit?

24 vote(s)
64.9%

0 vote(s)
0.0%

11 vote(s)
29.7%

2 vote(s)
5.4%
1. ### Michel Hardy-ValléeMembership CouncilCouncil

Messages:
4,351
Joined:
Apr 2, 2005
Location:
Montréal (QC
Shooter:
Multi Format
It's occuring to me more and more that the DIN system for film speed and exposure index is the smartest system, yet nobody writes articles using it, nor do we see many comments based on it on APUG. Unlike the ASA system which demands to memorize at least parts of the scale to know what numbers are following each other, the DIN system needs only two numbers: 1 and 3. Need to go up one stop? Add three. Need to go up by the minimal amount, i.e. 1/3 of a stop? Add one.

So all you Europeans, have you followed the way of the majority or do you still believe in DIN? All of you Americans, do you wish you could convert to DIN and stop fussing with numbers?

2. ### SparkyMember

Messages:
2,099
Joined:
Jun 19, 2005
Location:
Los Angeles
Shooter:
Multi Format
I (heart) Deutsche Industrie Norm(en)

I LOVE DIN. I LOVE meters. Feet and inches (SAE) is the most retarded system in the world. If you ACTUALLY stop and THINK about it - it's exactly as logical as using meters and inches together. What sense is there in a two unit system??

3. ### Bob F.Member

Messages:
3,984
Joined:
Oct 4, 2004
Location:
London
Shooter:
Multi Format
I find it easier to think in linear increments rather than logarithmic ones... As for feet/inches Vs metres: I don't know anyone who talks about a 0.050 metre lens - they use centimetres or millimetres: so now we have a THREE unit system...

I wouldn't dream of using anything other than metric SI units in my technical life, but for everyday use, feet/inches/yards/miles/etc are more intuitive and practical ( I might draw the line at perch, chain and hand, but it's nice to know they are there if I ever need them )...

Cheers, Bob.

4. ### SparkyMember

Messages:
2,099
Joined:
Jun 19, 2005
Location:
Los Angeles
Shooter:
Multi Format
Well - NOT to be contrary - but the only reason they appear to be more intuitive and/or practical is simply because you are so used to them - don't you think? That's like how a german was once trying to convince me that the german language was the most natural based on the fact that it has natural onomatopoeia - that, for example - the word "fahrzeug" -meaning "airplane" - conjures the image of an airplane immediately. I'd say that's called association.

As for metres/centimetres/millimetres - well - you can deal with that with a floating decimal point, right? Try THAT with SAE.

5. ### David H. BebbingtonInactive

Messages:
2,364
Joined:
Dec 12, 2004
Location:
East Kent, U
Shooter:
Medium Format
ISO must get everyone's vote, since it is a direct combination of ASA and DIN e.g. ISO 400/27° is ASA 400 and also DIN 27°. DIN has a small further benefit in that you can usually find DIN in comparison tables for the really old speed systems like Hurter & Driffield (H&D). I force myself to say ISO and not ASA (and also use metric units) in deference to the younger generation who have not been taught imperial units, but use common sense when referring to "metricated" products in the UK which of course have not been metricated at all - 4x5" film is an inch size, it always will be, no one in their right mind would make 10.2 x 12.7 cm a standard size when there is the perfectly good "real" metric size of 9 x 12 cm. And then there are the anomalies that you just learn to live with, like tire sizes - 165/13 means a tire with a tread width of 165 mm to fit a 13" wheel. And engine sizes - even before metrication we in the UK always specified engine capacity in cc, never cubic inches. And there's engineering hardware - down at the DIY supermarket screws are labelled for example 6 mm/1/4", which causes me to scream with pain - even if 1/4" were exactly 6 mm, it would still have a non-metric thread pitch. But what the hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS: German "Fahrzeug" means "vehicle" - an aeroplane is a "Flugzeug". "Ich habe Flugzeuge im Bauch" means "I've got butterflies in my stomach."

6. ### OleModeratorStaff MemberModerator

Messages:
9,281
Joined:
Sep 9, 2002
Location:
Bergen, Norw
Shooter:
Large Format
I voted ISO, but I really think in SI

7. ### David A. GoldfarbModeratorStaff MemberModerator

Messages:
17,946
Joined:
Sep 7, 2002
Location:
Honolulu, Ha
Shooter:
Large Format
I voted ASA, but I really think in EI.

I'm also glad there are units around like the hogshead in case I ever get a big enough darkroom.

8. ### medform-normMember

Messages:
863
Joined:
Dec 5, 2004
Location:
Netherlands
Shooter:
Multi Format
When measuring light, we mostly work with the EV scale - anyone else does that?

9. ### David H. BebbingtonInactive

Messages:
2,364
Joined:
Dec 12, 2004
Location:
East Kent, U
Shooter:
Medium Format
This can be convenient but confusing - for some people, EV1 is just the combination of the aperture f1.4 and an exposure time of 1 sec., without regard to film speed, and LV1 is a brightness level that needs an exposure of 1 sec. at f1.4 with ISO 100 film. Others use EV for this and specify the sensitivity of, for example, exposure meters in EV. As the number of cameras with Compur shutters with the irritating EV interlock grows less, the EV=LV usage is probably the only one worth worrying about.

10. ### medform-normMember

Messages:
863
Joined:
Dec 5, 2004
Location:
Netherlands
Shooter:
Multi Format
Yes, that's the one we use mostly. I should have been more precise, but thank you for the clarifying note, David!

11. ### joeyk49Member

Messages:
1,325
Joined:
Jan 13, 2004
Location:
New Jersey,
Shooter:
Multi Format
A weighty subject...several stones worth, at least! But when trying to photograph a horse with rider, which has just run a couple furlongs, from a distance of 100 meters, on a hot 90F day, the real question is: Will 990 millibahrs pressure keep it from raining? Or should I scrap the shot and go have a pint or two??? Or a dram...or a shot, jigger....

12. ### Steve RobertsMember

Messages:
1,148
Joined:
Oct 12, 2004
Location:
Near Tavisto
Shooter:
35mm
As a communications engineer used to dealing with dBs, the DIN system would seem to make a lot of sense with the advent of films in the 1600/3200 ASA range, if only because DIN figures of 33 and 36 would fit more easily on to a film speed dial!
Steve